Land Registry - Transfer or Assent 50% share from LST to existing 50% owner

MaidaVale3499

Apols for 2nd Posting as 1st attempt only drew replies re the poor financial advice received rather than the assistance I was seeking re Land Registry forms.

Hi,

I would be grateful for directions/links or info re my next steps:

Background

- in 2015, Dad and I took "advice" from an FCA IFA/advisor who advised that Dad should place his 50% into a Lifetime Settlement Trust with him and I as only Trustees.  The SRA regulated legal firm within same Finance Advisers wrote the Trust document and it was signed.  I already owned the other 50% ie no Trust.

- Dad passed away in October 2023. I am sole beneficiary and executor.

- The probate solicitor i appointed ascertained that not only was the wording of the LST "inadequate and unclear in many areas" but it had also not been registered which had become a requirement in 2020.  For this and other reasons that I will not bore you with the Probate Solicitor in consultation with Probate Office advised that my Dad's 2008 Will overrides the LST.  Ie Dad's 50% of bungalow forms part of his estate, RNRB therefore applies, ergo nil IHT to pay (as Dad also had mum's residue NRB to use)

- the Grant of Probate is due shortly, the Probate Solicitor has drafted a Deed of Appointment which will formally appoint the property out of the ‘trust’ and into my father’s estate. A certified copy can be provided to Land Registry.

QUESTION 1:  Do I need to complete any Land Registry forms to transfer the 50% ownership from the LS Trust to Dad's Estate

QUESTION 2:
When the 50% share of the bungalow is back in my father's estate from the LS Trust (and with a certified copy of the Deed of Probate do I complete a TR1 or an AS1 or another form.

Question 3:
As a UK citizen with a passport and the existing other 50% owner of the property, what verification form do i need to co.ete please?

Question 4:
What type/s of fees should I be playing

Thanks if you all haven't lost will to live!!

MaidaVale3499

Any thoughts please?

Keep_pedalling

MaidaVale3499 said:

Any thoughts please?

I don’t think we can help, you need professional advice.

MaidaVale3499

Just to follow up for anyone that may ever be in this same position.

I have taken legal advice and as my father and I were the only Trustees to the LST, I need to appoint a temporary 2nd Trustee to the LST (will require a Deed of appointment) and then a further Deed to terminate the LST thus envoking the Will ie I inherit and then the Assent form can be completed and sent to Land Registry.  Ive had a quote for £1029 inc vat.

Lesson Learned - Always have IFAs explain the rationale of their recommendations. 

Land_Registry

MaidaVale3499 said:

Apols for 2nd Posting as 1st attempt only drew replies re the poor financial advice received rather than the assistance I was seeking re Land Registry forms.

Hi,

I would be grateful for directions/links or info re my next steps:

Background

- in 2015, Dad and I took "advice" from an FCA IFA/advisor who advised that Dad should place his 50% into a Lifetime Settlement Trust with him and I as only Trustees.  The SRA regulated legal firm within same Finance Advisers wrote the Trust document and it was signed.  I already owned the other 50% ie no Trust.

- Dad passed away in October 2023. I am sole beneficiary and executor.

- The probate solicitor i appointed ascertained that not only was the wording of the LST "inadequate and unclear in many areas" but it had also not been registered which had become a requirement in 2020.  For this and other reasons that I will not bore you with the Probate Solicitor in consultation with Probate Office advised that my Dad's 2008 Will overrides the LST.  Ie Dad's 50% of bungalow forms part of his estate, RNRB therefore applies, ergo nil IHT to pay (as Dad also had mum's residue NRB to use)

- the Grant of Probate is due shortly, the Probate Solicitor has drafted a Deed of Appointment which will formally appoint the property out of the ‘trust’ and into my father’s estate. A certified copy can be provided to Land Registry.

QUESTION 1:  Do I need to complete any Land Registry forms to transfer the 50% ownership from the LS Trust to Dad's Estate

QUESTION 2:
When the 50% share of the bungalow is back in my father's estate from the LS Trust (and with a certified copy of the Deed of Probate do I complete a TR1 or an AS1 or another form.

Question 3:
As a UK citizen with a passport and the existing other 50% owner of the property, what verification form do i need to co.ete please?

Question 4:
What type/s of fees should I be playing

Thanks if you all haven't lost will to live!!

Appreciate you have already sought wider advice but the key, from a purely registration perspective, is how is the property currently registered. 
I assume from the details provided that it is registered in his sole name and if so then as the executor you would transfer the legal ownership to you as the beneficiary using forms AP1, AS1 and ID1/ID3 as appropriate
The 50% share you refer to relates to the beneficial ownership/trust. The legal ownership is only ever dealt with as a whole.
The registration fee is Scale 2 on the current market value of the property

MaidaVale3499

Land_Registry said:

MaidaVale3499 said:

Apols for 2nd Posting as 1st attempt only drew replies re the poor financial advice received rather than the assistance I was seeking re Land Registry forms.

Hi,

I would be grateful for directions/links or info re my next steps:

Background

- in 2015, Dad and I took "advice" from an FCA IFA/advisor who advised that Dad should place his 50% into a Lifetime Settlement Trust with him and I as only Trustees.  The SRA regulated legal firm within same Finance Advisers wrote the Trust document and it was signed.  I already owned the other 50% ie no Trust.

- Dad passed away in October 2023. I am sole beneficiary and executor.

- The probate solicitor i appointed ascertained that not only was the wording of the LST "inadequate and unclear in many areas" but it had also not been registered which had become a requirement in 2020.  For this and other reasons that I will not bore you with the Probate Solicitor in consultation with Probate Office advised that my Dad's 2008 Will overrides the LST.  Ie Dad's 50% of bungalow forms part of his estate, RNRB therefore applies, ergo nil IHT to pay (as Dad also had mum's residue NRB to use)

- the Grant of Probate is due shortly, the Probate Solicitor has drafted a Deed of Appointment which will formally appoint the property out of the ‘trust’ and into my father’s estate. A certified copy can be provided to Land Registry.

QUESTION 1:  Do I need to complete any Land Registry forms to transfer the 50% ownership from the LS Trust to Dad's Estate

QUESTION 2:
When the 50% share of the bungalow is back in my father's estate from the LS Trust (and with a certified copy of the Deed of Probate do I complete a TR1 or an AS1 or another form.

Question 3:
As a UK citizen with a passport and the existing other 50% owner of the property, what verification form do i need to co.ete please?

Question 4:
What type/s of fees should I be playing

Thanks if you all haven't lost will to live!!

Appreciate you have already sought wider advice but the key, from a purely registration perspective, is how is the property currently registered. 
I assume from the details provided that it is registered in his sole name and if so then as the executor you would transfer the legal ownership to you as the beneficiary using forms AP1, AS1 and ID1/ID3 as appropriate
The 50% share you refer to relates to the beneficial ownership/trust. The legal ownership is only ever dealt with as a whole.
The registration fee is Scale 2 on the current market value of the property

Hi,

Thanks for replying.  The current registration is not in my Dad's sole name.......The Land Register shows the property is currently registered as 50% in my sole name (inherited directly via my late mother's will dated 2003 and probate in 2015) and the other 50% in the (my DAD'S NAME) Lifetime Settlement Trust (created in 2013 but not registered as required by law in c2018) , of which  Dad and I were the only Trustees.

A specialist probate barrister had to advise my probate solicitor on whether my Dad's Will (signed in 2003) or the 2013 LST took precedence as regards to Dad's probate.  Due to poorly written ie contradictory and unclear wording in the LST .....the Will was ruled to take precedence with my being sole beneficiary to my dad's entire estate.  The Probate has been granted.

I usually understand most things but this  has made my head spin.

Land_Registry

MaidaVale3499 said:

Land_Registry said:

MaidaVale3499 said:

Apols for 2nd Posting as 1st attempt only drew replies re the poor financial advice received rather than the assistance I was seeking re Land Registry forms.

Hi,

I would be grateful for directions/links or info re my next steps:

Background

- in 2015, Dad and I took "advice" from an FCA IFA/advisor who advised that Dad should place his 50% into a Lifetime Settlement Trust with him and I as only Trustees.  The SRA regulated legal firm within same Finance Advisers wrote the Trust document and it was signed.  I already owned the other 50% ie no Trust.

- Dad passed away in October 2023. I am sole beneficiary and executor.

- The probate solicitor i appointed ascertained that not only was the wording of the LST "inadequate and unclear in many areas" but it had also not been registered which had become a requirement in 2020.  For this and other reasons that I will not bore you with the Probate Solicitor in consultation with Probate Office advised that my Dad's 2008 Will overrides the LST.  Ie Dad's 50% of bungalow forms part of his estate, RNRB therefore applies, ergo nil IHT to pay (as Dad also had mum's residue NRB to use)

- the Grant of Probate is due shortly, the Probate Solicitor has drafted a Deed of Appointment which will formally appoint the property out of the ‘trust’ and into my father’s estate. A certified copy can be provided to Land Registry.

QUESTION 1:  Do I need to complete any Land Registry forms to transfer the 50% ownership from the LS Trust to Dad's Estate

QUESTION 2:
When the 50% share of the bungalow is back in my father's estate from the LS Trust (and with a certified copy of the Deed of Probate do I complete a TR1 or an AS1 or another form.

Question 3:
As a UK citizen with a passport and the existing other 50% owner of the property, what verification form do i need to co.ete please?

Question 4:
What type/s of fees should I be playing

Thanks if you all haven't lost will to live!!

Appreciate you have already sought wider advice but the key, from a purely registration perspective, is how is the property currently registered. 
I assume from the details provided that it is registered in his sole name and if so then as the executor you would transfer the legal ownership to you as the beneficiary using forms AP1, AS1 and ID1/ID3 as appropriate
The 50% share you refer to relates to the beneficial ownership/trust. The legal ownership is only ever dealt with as a whole.
The registration fee is Scale 2 on the current market value of the property

Hi,

Thanks for replying.  The current registration is not in my Dad's sole name.......The Land Register shows the property is currently registered as 50% in my sole name (inherited directly via my late mother's will dated 2003 and probate in 2015) and the other 50% in the (my DAD'S NAME) Lifetime Settlement Trust (created in 2013 but not registered as required by law in c2018) , of which  Dad and I were the only Trustees.

A specialist probate barrister had to advise my probate solicitor on whether my Dad's Will (signed in 2003) or the 2013 LST took precedence as regards to Dad's probate.  Due to poorly written ie contradictory and unclear wording in the LST .....the Will was ruled to take precedence with my being sole beneficiary to my dad's entire estate.  The Probate has been granted.

I usually understand most things but this  has made my head spin.

Noted and appreciated so you are both registered as joint owners. And I assume there is a form A restriction in place also to protect the trust/life interest you refer to.
If so and Dad has sadly passed away the legal ownership, which we register, has passed to you. Probate is not required but it can be for other purposes and as such can, like the death certificate, be used as evidence of his death.
So back to your Qs
QUESTION 1:  form DJP plus evidence of death to update the register from joint to your sole name. Forms RX3/ST5 to cancel the form A restriction now that you are the sole legal and beneficial owner - the trust has come to an end. See our PG 6 for guidance re what's needed re forms

QUESTION 2: there's no transfer involved so no form TR1 or AS1 needed. The legal ownership is only ever transferred as a whole. You can't transfer a share and in this case as a joint owner has died the register simply needs to be updated re that death.

Question 3: No ID verification needed

Question 4: there is no fee for forms DJP or RX3/ST5

MaidaVale3499

Land_Registry said:

MaidaVale3499 said:

Land_Registry said:

MaidaVale3499 said:

Apols for 2nd Posting as 1st attempt only drew replies re the poor financial advice received rather than the assistance I was seeking re Land Registry forms.

Hi,

I would be grateful for directions/links or info re my next steps:

Background

- in 2015, Dad and I took "advice" from an FCA IFA/advisor who advised that Dad should place his 50% into a Lifetime Settlement Trust with him and I as only Trustees.  The SRA regulated legal firm within same Finance Advisers wrote the Trust document and it was signed.  I already owned the other 50% ie no Trust.

- Dad passed away in October 2023. I am sole beneficiary and executor.

- The probate solicitor i appointed ascertained that not only was the wording of the LST "inadequate and unclear in many areas" but it had also not been registered which had become a requirement in 2020.  For this and other reasons that I will not bore you with the Probate Solicitor in consultation with Probate Office advised that my Dad's 2008 Will overrides the LST.  Ie Dad's 50% of bungalow forms part of his estate, RNRB therefore applies, ergo nil IHT to pay (as Dad also had mum's residue NRB to use)

- the Grant of Probate is due shortly, the Probate Solicitor has drafted a Deed of Appointment which will formally appoint the property out of the ‘trust’ and into my father’s estate. A certified copy can be provided to Land Registry.

QUESTION 1:  Do I need to complete any Land Registry forms to transfer the 50% ownership from the LS Trust to Dad's Estate

QUESTION 2:
When the 50% share of the bungalow is back in my father's estate from the LS Trust (and with a certified copy of the Deed of Probate do I complete a TR1 or an AS1 or another form.

Question 3:
As a UK citizen with a passport and the existing other 50% owner of the property, what verification form do i need to co.ete please?

Question 4:
What type/s of fees should I be playing

Thanks if you all haven't lost will to live!!

Appreciate you have already sought wider advice but the key, from a purely registration perspective, is how is the property currently registered. 
I assume from the details provided that it is registered in his sole name and if so then as the executor you would transfer the legal ownership to you as the beneficiary using forms AP1, AS1 and ID1/ID3 as appropriate
The 50% share you refer to relates to the beneficial ownership/trust. The legal ownership is only ever dealt with as a whole.
The registration fee is Scale 2 on the current market value of the property

Hi,

Thanks for replying.  The current registration is not in my Dad's sole name.......The Land Register shows the property is currently registered as 50% in my sole name (inherited directly via my late mother's will dated 2003 and probate in 2015) and the other 50% in the (my DAD'S NAME) Lifetime Settlement Trust (created in 2013 but not registered as required by law in c2018) , of which  Dad and I were the only Trustees.

A specialist probate barrister had to advise my probate solicitor on whether my Dad's Will (signed in 2003) or the 2013 LST took precedence as regards to Dad's probate.  Due to poorly written ie contradictory and unclear wording in the LST .....the Will was ruled to take precedence with my being sole beneficiary to my dad's entire estate.  The Probate has been granted.

I usually understand most things but this  has made my head spin.

Noted and appreciated so you are both registered as joint owners. And I assume there is a form A restriction in place also to protect the trust/life interest you refer to.
If so and Dad has sadly passed away the legal ownership, which we register, has passed to you. Probate is not required but it can be for other purposes and as such can, like the death certificate, be used as evidence of his death.
So back to your Qs
QUESTION 1:  form DJP plus evidence of death to update the register from joint to your sole name. Forms RX3/ST5 to cancel the form A restriction now that you are the sole legal and beneficial owner - the trust has come to an end. See our PG 6 for guidance re what's needed re forms

QUESTION 2: there's no transfer involved so no form TR1 or AS1 needed. The legal ownership is only ever transferred as a whole. You can't transfer a share and in this case as a joint owner has died the register simply needs to be updated re that death.

Question 3: No ID verification needed

Question 4: there is no fee for forms DJP or RX3/ST5

Thank you so much for explaining it all and detailing which forms are needed.  I will be completing the forms this comming week and will send them to Land Registry br Signed For Delivery.

Thank you again.