Section75

roofy_2

Please can any one advise:
I bought a second hand car using my credit card to pay the deposit of £200, I paid the remainder on may debit card as it exceeded my limit on my credit card.
The car developed a fault, was sold with a warranty until i needed details of warranty and then garage says it didn't register with warranty with the company but that is a different story.
Ask for repair, garage refuses, start court action with guidance of CA.  Send second letter Letter before court action.  Garages response is we are now closing in five days.
Started Section75 with NATWEST as paid deposit on their credit card.  When completing the paperwork, garage owner stated invoice needed to match V5 registration document. Car was being purchased as a gift for my daughter.
Response from NATWEST today say because sales invoice states daughter name they wont pay out.
I have sent my bank statement showing money coming out of my bank account both debit and credit card and the credit card receipt slip.
My understanding is that the Consumer Rights are with the Credit card, I used the card to pay for the item, what i chose to do with the item after purchase is my choice.
This is my thought, if I went to a shop and purchased an item on my credit card the only proof of purchase would be the till receipt and bank statements showing money leaving my account and going to the shop.  There would be no sales invoice. So why is it different if there is, I bought it, after that I can gift it?
I am so confused, please can anyone shed any light on this, and is there any hope of getting my money back?
Thank you for reading.

CliveOfIndia

This is the problem with S75 claims - strictly speaking, it's only applicable if the goods were bought BY the cardholder and FOR the cardholder.

Consumer Rights are entirely different from S75.  From what you've said, NatWest are correct in rejecting the S75 claim, as you bought the car for your daughter.  You need to pursue the garage under whatever consumer rights you may be entitled to - or else, you need to find out why the warranty won't cover the fault.  Warranties won't cover everything, in particular they'll almost always exclude wear & tear or consumable items.

roofy_2

HI Clive, so if i purchase any item on a credit card i am not free to gift it to anyone? If this is the case why is that not disclosed anywhere?
CA have told me that because he is closing down the garage I can not pursue through court.
There is no warranty, but again CA don't see that as an issue, to me I have been sold something and never received the good I was sold.
It is an fault with the timing chain.

eddddy

CliveOfIndia said:

This is the problem with S75 claims - strictly speaking, it's only applicable if the goods were bought BY the cardholder and FOR the cardholder.

There is nothing in section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act that says the item being supplied must be for the debtor's (i.e. the OP's) use.

The real issue will be this:

roofy_2 said:

Response from NATWEST today say because sales invoice states daughter name they wont pay out.

So the contract was between the garage and your daughter.

For section 75 to apply, the invoice would have to be in your name - so that the contract is between you and the garage.

You could have then given the car to your daughter as a gift, and that wouldn't have affected the s75 protection.

Nasqueron

roofy_2 said:

HI Clive, so if i purchase any item on a credit card i am not free to gift it to anyone? If this is the case why is that not disclosed anywhere?
CA have told me that because he is closing down the garage I can not pursue through court.
There is no warranty, but again CA don't see that as an issue, to me I have been sold something and never received the good I was sold.
It is an fault with the timing chain.

The reason is that the S75 rules only cover direct links (purchaser/seller via the bank) and exclude gifts etc. With a car it's harder to argue because the RK address (while not proof of ownership) shows that you bought it for her, therefore falling foul of the S75 rules

eddddy

Nasqueron said:

The reason is that the S75 rules only cover direct links (purchaser/seller via the bank) and exclude gifts etc. 

Can you provide a link to an authoritative website that says s75 does not apply to to things which are purchased to be gifts?

Or point to the clause in the Consumer Credit Act that says it doesn't apply to things which are purchased to be gifts?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75

Nasqueron

eddddy said:

Nasqueron said:

The reason is that the S75 rules only cover direct links (purchaser/seller via the bank) and exclude gifts etc. 

Can you provide a link to an authoritative website that says s75 does not apply to to things which are purchased to be gifts?

Or point to the clause in the Consumer Credit Act that says it doesn't apply to things which are purchased to be gifts?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75

Line 1

If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

The debtor doesn't have a claim, the person he gave the car to does. S75 covers the card holder who has primary benefit of the part. OP doesn't. FOS might disagree if OP gets deadlock letter

eddddy

Nasqueron said:

eddddy said:

Nasqueron said:

The reason is that the S75 rules only cover direct links (purchaser/seller via the bank) and exclude gifts etc. 

Can you provide a link to an authoritative website that says s75 does not apply to to things which are purchased to be gifts?

Or point to the clause in the Consumer Credit Act that says it doesn't apply to things which are purchased to be gifts?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75

Line 1

If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

You've correctly quoted a sentence from the Consumer Credit Act - but it doesn't support your argument about gifts in any way.


And, at best, this statement is somewhere between very misleading and wrong:

Nasqueron said:

The debtor doesn't have a claim, the person he gave the car to does. 

The person who is party to the contract can make a claim for breach of contract by the supplier.

The recipient of a gift has no contract with the supplier, so cannot make a claim for breach of contract by the supplier.

roofy_2

So basically right from the start i was wrongly advised to put her name on the sales invoice by the garage owner who sold me the vehicle.
Had I not provided a photo of the sales invoice and only of the credit card receipt and my bank statement, it would have been ok?
In reality she drove the car 3 times before the fault became apparent once it became undrivable it returned to my ownership.  So I am now the owner.

eddddy

roofy_2 said:

Had I not provided a photo of the sales invoice and only of the credit card receipt and my bank statement, it would have been ok?

You would need to prove to the bank that the supplier had breached the contract.

So the bank would have almost certainly asked for a copy of the sales invoice.  Plus a copy of the contract. Plus a report from a suitable car expert, etc.

The bank would probably end up 'out of pocket' if the s75 claim succeeded, so they will want to do a thorough investigation before paying you.

roofy_2 said:

So basically right from the start i was wrongly advised to put her name on the sales invoice by the garage owner who sold me the vehicle.

I guess the advise is neither 'right' or 'wrong' - but doing it that way means you don't get s75 protection.

In simple terms, you could have got s75 protection by doing either of the following...

• 1) Your name on the invoice and you pay with your credit card - and then you give the car as a gift to your daughter

• 2) Your daughter's name on the invoice and your daughter pays with her credit card - and you give your daughter cash so she can pay off her credit card

... but unfortunately, it's too late now.

roofy_2 said:

 So I am now the owner.

Unfortunately, you being the owner now doesn't change anything.

The invoice says that the contract is between your daughter and the garage.

DullGreyGuy

roofy_2 said:

So basically right from the start i was wrongly advised to put her name on the sales invoice by the garage owner who sold me the vehicle.
Had I not provided a photo of the sales invoice and only of the credit card receipt and my bank statement, it would have been ok?
In reality she drove the car 3 times before the fault became apparent once it became undrivable it returned to my ownership.  So I am now the owner.

The garage owner wouldn't be able to give you legal advice, I would be surprised if they are a licensed solicitor, and I very much doubt you explicitly asked about Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act when deciding how to structure the deal. 

So section 75 is almost certainly not going to apply as the contracting party was your daughter not you, you just funded the deal via credit. 

You therefore need to make sure you object to any attempt to wind up the company until you have a judgement against them.