Ceiling Structural Integrity Advice

raxx99

Hey guys,

I have a question for any experienced builder/structural guys. 

I have a room measuring roughly 6M X 3M. There was previously a stud wall (don't think it was load-bearing) dividing the room with an arch door built in. Recently the stud wall had been removed, and over the course of a couple of days I've noticed the floor above has ever so slightly lowered (around 10mm) underneath where the stud wall was.

The Joists that run across are wood/timber and have a thickness of 40mm. There are 8 of these joists if you include the ends. They are roughly 450mm spaced apart.

My question is, given the no. of joists and length of the room, are these within a safe load limit for a floor above? I was just concerned by the 10mm drop in the floor in the centre where this stud wall once stood, and worried this will drop further.

Any advice/2nd opinion would be great. Let me know if you need any further info.

Thanks.

raxx99

Photos below:

raxx99

Measurement of Joist = 6000mm x 190mm x 40mm

stuart45

Have at look at the span tables. I'm sure you'll find that the joists are over spanned at 6000mm.

FreeBear

raxx99 said: I have a room measuring roughly 6M X 3M. There was previously a stud wall (don't think it was load-bearing) dividing the room with an arch door built in. Recently the stud wall had been removed, and over the course of a couple of days I've noticed the floor above has ever so slightly lowered (around 10mm) underneath where the stud wall was.

You should never remove a wall without consulting a structural engineer. A stud wall can be structural (I have two here supporting ceiling joists), so it is unwise to assume it isn't.

Looking at span tables, 38x195mm joists have a maximum span of 3.68m (depending on loading) - https://nhbc-standards.co.uk/6-superstructure-excluding-roofs/6-4-timber-and-concrete-upper-floors/6-4-8-timber-joist-spans/

You either need to reinstate the stud wall, or consult a structural engineer pronto for a professional recommendation.

35har1old

raxx99 said:

Hey guys,

I have a question for any experienced builder/structural guys. 

I have a room measuring roughly 6M X 3M. There was previously a stud wall (don't think it was load-bearing) dividing the room with an arch door built in. Recently the stud wall had been removed, and over the course of a couple of days I've noticed the floor above has ever so slightly lowered (around 10mm) underneath where the stud wall was.

The Joists that run across are wood/timber and have a thickness of 40mm. There are 8 of these joists if you include the ends. They are roughly 450mm spaced apart.

My question is, given the no. of joists and length of the room, are these within a safe load limit for a floor above? I was just concerned by the 10mm drop in the floor in the centre where this stud wall once stood, and worried this will drop further.

Any advice/2nd opinion would be great. Let me know if you need any further info.

Thanks.

For a 6m span joist would need to be 89mm x 235mm at 400mm centers

raxx99

Yeah I think the stud definitely had some load bearing capacity. I was advised by my neighbour who happened to be the original site manager when the property was built in 80s, that the stud wall could be removed and offered no structural support to ceiling. I may just stick an rsj going across the centre (where stud was) for added support which should bring this inline with the span recommendations. 

BarelySentientAI

raxx99 said:

Yeah I think the stud definitely had some load bearing capacity. I was advised by my neighbour who happened to be the original site manager when the property was built in 80s, that the stud wall could be removed and offered no structural support to ceiling. I may just stick an rsj going across the centre (where stud was) for added support which should bring this inline with the span recommendations. 

There's your lesson then - don't listen to neighbours about structural modifications to your house.

ThisIsWeird

raxx99 said:

Yeah I think the stud definitely had some load bearing capacity. I was advised by my neighbour who happened to be the original site manager when the property was built in 80s, that the stud wall could be removed and offered no structural support to ceiling. I may just stick an rsj going across the centre (where stud was) for added support which should bring this inline with the span recommendations. 

'You' are just going to 'stick an rsj in'?  

A 6m RSJ is big, and is going to need decent supports at each end - our 6m jobbie are a block-laid-flat size;

A decent SE may be able to provide viable alternatives - the whopping RSJ, or perhaps adding steel plate to make the timber joists 'flitchish' (a lot of extra weight, tho'), or even possibly slipping in additional composite joists in between the existing ones? 

I dunno. 6m is quite a span, tho'.

Alternatively, could you design in a 'replacement' for the ol' structural partition wall, but open-frame, requiring only a few uprights, and making them a feature - perhaps incorporate them into open shelves or whatevs? It wouldn't even have to be in the room centre location as before, provided each span conforms.

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

raxx99 said:

Yeah I think the stud definitely had some load bearing capacity. I was advised by my neighbour who happened to be the original site manager when the property was built in 80s, that the stud wall could be removed and offered no structural support to ceiling. I may just stick an rsj going across the centre (where stud was) for added support which should bring this inline with the span recommendations. 

'You' are just going to 'stick an rsj in'?  

A 6m RSJ is big, and is going to need decent supports at each end - our 6m jobbie are a block-laid-flat size;

...

The beam would go at right angles to the joists, probably in the same position the wall was in.  So would only need to be ~3m long.

It still needs a structural engineer to assess and design, as well as getting building control signoff.

OP, you should be asking the builder to get additional propping under those joists to stop any further movement, and get a structural engineer in ASAP (like today, if possible).  In the meantime the builder shouldn't do anything else which may compromise the structure.  I'd also consider what rooms are above and take some sensible precautions - like not having people go in the rooms unnecessarily and if they are children's bedrooms then consider having them sleep in other rooms until OK'd by the structural engineer. (yes, potentially it could be that serious)

raxx99

thanks. Ive called an SE to assess tomorrow. In the meantime those timber planks should suffice