NIP Speeding - Location potentially incorrect

misscleo

Hi Everyone, 

Long time lurker here :-).

I need some advise regarding a NIP I received for going 39mph in a 30 zone.

The issue I have is I think that the location is wrong. The Location has been submitted as B4029 Church Road Shilton. But the photo that the officer doesn't match anywhere on the Church Road portion of the B4029. 

The B4029 is long and switches between 30mph and 50mph speed limits (the name changes along the road). The photo looks like it has been taken in the 50mph zone which is rural compared to the 30 mph zone which is urban. I have also taken my partner out with a copy of the photo and even he can't see the area in which the photo was taken.

I have asked for either co-ordinates of where my car or the camera was or meta data to be provided so I can check for myself but I have just had an email saying that they are compliant " with legislation and Traffic Regulation requirements". I have sent a street map view showing Church road and I have offered to film my journey so they can see what I mean.

If I was certain I was in the 30mph zone I would except the points / fine but I am not certain I was.

What should I do? Should I pursue this or just accept the NIP. I don't want to face further costs or risk more points. But at the same time surely it is reasonable to ask for evidence to be clear.


Thank you in advance for any advice!!

Keep_pedalling

What you need to do is respond to the NIP naming the driver otherwise you will face a hefty fine and 6 points for failing to name the driver. If you want to fight the case then you are going to have plead not guilty and have your date in court.

You really need to post over on the FTLA forum as they are the experts in criminal offences. 

https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/

Car_54

As above, you don't "accept" a NIP: it's just a notice, and you've been notified.

You're not entitled to see any evidence at this stage.

A NIP has to include the ."place where it is alleged to have been committed". If you think it is non-compliant you can mount a "vague location" defence in court, but by that stage you have lost the possible options of a fixed penalty or course. If your defence fails it will be very expensive.

Better advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/

TooManyPoints

This is confusing because all  the maps I have looked at show the road from Anstey to Shilton (the stretch containing Church Road) to be the B4065. Here's one example:

Map of Bedworth, Warwickshire [City/Town/Village] (streetmap.co.uk)

However, this article describes the full route of the B4029 and suggests that the road southwards from Shilton towards Anstey is the B4029. 

B4029 - Roader's Digest: The SABRE Wiki (sabre-roads.org.uk)

Anyway, no matter.

The only hope you have of dealing with this without going to court is to get the police to drop the matter out of "embarrassment." Since you've already tried that your hopes seem slim.

After you have named yourself as the driver you will almost certainly be offered a course for that speed (provided you have not done one in the last three years). If you don't fancy that, the alternative is a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points). They are the "Out-of-Court" offers he police have at their disposal.

The purpose of the NIP is to inform the recipient that a prosecution is being considered. To be compliant, it must inform them of the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed. However, along with the NIP, there is a separate document (usually printed on the same sheet of paper) which is a "request for driver's details." This asks the recipient to name the driver at that time and at the specified place. Is this location so vague or obscure that you cannot do that?

This is important because if you respond to that request naming yourself as the driver, you've largely thrown away any chance you might have of defending the speeding charge on the basis of a non-compliant NIP. To understand this, look at it from the court's point of view: you are suggesting that the NIP is deficient in that you do not know where the offence occurred. But you were confident enough to name yourself as the driver at the relevant time and place.

However, this is a high stakes gamble and one in which you must tread extremely carefully. If you respond to the request for driver's details by saying you cannot name the driver because you don't know where the offence occurred there is every chance that the police will prosecute you for "failing to provide driver's details". This offence, on conviction, carries six points and an endorsement code (MS90) which give insurers a fit of the vapours.

So what is the position with this location? Do you know where the offence occurred and it simply does not tie up with the information you have been sent? Or do you have no idea where it occurred at all (and so will have difficulty responding to the "request for driver's details)? Before you consider whether or not to defend the speeding charge you need to consider how you will respond to the request for driver's details. If the police do not engage with you and provide more information (which seems unlikely) and you fail to name the driver, the NIP (whether deficient or not)  and the speeding charge both become irrelevant.

You should also bear in mind that the photographs you have are not required by law. They have been provided as a courtesy. It is the information on the NIP and the request for driver's details which form the information you need to be provided with.

As an aside (well almost, because it might make a difference if you are not) are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle?

Mildly_Miffed

This was a camera van?

Bear in mind the van's location will have been GPS tracked, with the distance to the car noted, and that the photos are taken using a lens that massively compresses distance.

Remember, also, that doing 31mph at the very point you pass the signs entering the 30mph limit is exceeding the speed limit.

user1977

You really think they decided to park the van in the 50mph zone and then ticket people driving at under 50mph?

unforeseen

user1977 said:

You really think they decided to park the van in the 50mph zone and then ticket people driving at under 50mph?

I got a speeding ticket from a van on the main carriageway (speed limit 70) and I was on the on slip which had a 50 limit due to roadworks on the slip. It didn't change back to 70 until the end