Cannot move money at Hargreaves Lansdown after death

wibbler

My father died in March. It turns out his will was last done in 1986, and one of the 2 executors is incapacitated (dementia). That same executor was a solicitor at the legal firm that created the will.

We have been through 21 different financial institations. but Hargreaves Lansdown are the only people who have insisted on signatures from both executors, due to the circumstances. We have a letter from the soliticitors detailing how he is incapaciated. This executor has never been involved with the family or the willl, other than be nominated as an executor (and he has never acted as that either!)

Hargreaves Lansdown want us to raise a P15 form with the executor (but how can we when he is incapacitated?) Or they want us to add a codecil. Or they want us to go through probate. All this for less than £10k.

As far as I can see, all of these options cost money and time. My mother is trying to get to a care home, and the move keeps failing because we cannot get this lump sum across. What can I do thats quick and simple?

refluxer

Applying for probate is a common way of dealing with finances after a death - I've been an executor myself in the past and, IIRC, most of the financial institutions I dealt with required it when the value involved was over a certain amount. This wasn't always huge sums either - it could be as little as a few thousand pounds.

With that in mind, I'm surprised that you've got as far as it sounds like you have, without it ?

p00hsticks

refluxer said:

Applying for probate is a common way of dealing with finances after a death - I've been an executor myself in the past and, IIRC, most of the financial institutions I dealt with required it when the value involved was over a certain amount. This wasn't always huge sums either - it could be as little as a few thousand pounds.

With that in mind, I'm surprised that you've got as far as it sounds like you have, without it ?

I'd second this - in my case, I'm having to get probate as the sum is over £20k. 
HL seem to have a threshold of £50k - perhaps the OP could clarify what sort of sum is involved here ?

<Edit> I've just re-read the OP and it seems that the amount in question is under £10k, in which case the HL website seems to suggest that... 

In most cases we will need to see the original Grant of Probate or Letters of Administration before we can take instructions from an executor or administrator.

If the assets (excluding pensions) with HL are worth less than £50,000 and you are not already applying for probate, we will accept a Small Estates Declaration and Indemnity form in lieu of a Grant of Probate. We will provide this document in the Estate application pack that we send, however, we will require a certified copy of the Will before we can action any instructions.

(taken from What to do when someone dies | Losing a loved one (hl.co.uk) )

I don't understand the request for a codicil - I'm no legal expert, but once a person has died how can a codicil possibly be added to their existing will ? 

Rodders53

wibbler said:

 What can I do that's quick and simple?

Apply for Probate?  Using form PA14 signed by a Medical Professional who knows/treats the Solicitor to remove him as executor.  It'll cost a Doctor's Fee but otherwise you are just wasting time and effort.
https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/if-theres-a-will

Hopefully the will-writing solicitors firm can assist if needed with that form being filled in?

Malthusian

wibbler said:

As far as I can see, all of these options cost money and time. My mother is trying to get to a care home, and the move keeps failing because we cannot get this lump sum across. What can I do thats quick and simple?

I don't understand how a sum of less than £10k can be the difference between moving into a care home or not. A sum of less than £10k will disappear on care fees within weeks, so if a care home can't be afforded without the extra four-figure sum it can't be afforded at all.

I appreciate she might be going into a home that accepts local-authority-funded residents but needs to drain her assets before she receives LA funding. However, once your assets go below at least £14,250 (in England, other UK countries have higher limits) the local authority has to fund your care in full - which means the HL money does not need to be drawn on as it can be part of the £14,250 (or equivalent limit).

Any solution to this problem is likely to take months so you need to find a solution for her care on the assumption that the money is not available.

Hargreaves Lansdown are acting outside the legal process for dealing with estates, so the requirement for both executors to sign is coming entirely from them. (Often banks will release funds under a certain limit with the signature of zero executors; someone signing some paper saying they are entitled to the money is enough for them to chance it. That's just for illustration, I'm not suggesting saying that to HL, as "but other companies" arguments usually just result in "we're not other companies".)

I would be tempted to try a formal complaint pointing out that asking for the signature of an executor whom they know with certainty is incapacitated (thanks to a letter from a registered solicitor) is not reasonable. And that it undermines the entire point of the "small estates" process to force you to go through the time and expense of probate for such a small sum. 

It may not work, and if they reject the complaint (or stonewall it), you are left with going to the Ombudsman which has a similar timescale to obtaining probate anyway. But it's a shot to nothing and you can do that while also applying for probate.