UC work commitments help

Sam2022

My partner and I receive UC including Carer element of UC and my LCWWRA.  As a result my partner has no work commitments as he is my carer.
This has all been fine until today when an updated Council Tax bill arrived as a result of the annual April increases to benefits.
We live in social housing but have to pay Band B in C Tax.  Our Council Tax Reduction has meant we have to pay 25% of the bill which is £44 a month.
However the council has now decided that we receive 11p a week over their benefit banding meaning we now have to pay 50% of the bill.  In real terms this is now £116 a month an increase of £72 a month.  After several phone calls and checking their reduction scheme it works out that although my PIP is discounted as income, the carer element of UC is not discounted but Carers Allowance is, which is ridiculous!!  They have confirmed that if my partner claims Carers Allowance we will go back to where we were and only have to pay 25% of the bill.
What I need to know is will my partner still have zero work commitments or will he have to look for work?  Which would mean I would need then need additional care.
The whole thing is crazy, even the lady at the Council agreed that carer element of UC should be disregarded.  

Thanks in advance
Sam

poppy12345

You don't need to claim carers allowance to be entitled to carers element. Your partner will still have no work commitments if they cancel the carers allowance claim. The only issue here will be to get UC to stop deducting the carers allowance from your UC as that can be a nightmare, as can getting carers allowance to stop. 

Newcad

Sam2022 says that CA is not being claimed -so the issue here is not with UC but with the council and their CTS rules.

As we all know some councils can have strange and even inconsistent rules about it.

If I read it right then in this case claiming CA would mean that CA payment is then deducted £/£ from UC, - that would then mean a reduction in UC payment because CE is less than CA.

The claimant would still get the same combined CA+UC - but under this particular councils rules the CTS could be restored to the same as previously because the UC part would then be lower.

Sam2022

Yes that is correct, my post was likely a bit long winded but that's me.
I do not understand how the council can disregard CA in full but not Carer element of UC.

In reality we are now actually worse off than before the April benefit uprating.  I am going to appeal the decision but doubt I will get anywhere with it.

Robbie64

Whether it will make a difference is unknown, but you could complain to your local councillor that the way that the council assesses Council Tax Support is producing a perverse outcome. If your councillor is diligent, he or she should look into it as it's what they are elected to do. It's illogical to reduce CT support because someone is getting a higher amount of a means tested benefit.

Sam2022

That is exactly the crux of it in a nutshell.  Almost as if the council has spotted a way of making savings in their budget.
For clarity and anyone else affected the council is North Yorkshire County Council.

Robbie64

I forgot that some councils assess Council Tax Reduction using income banding. Under this, income from Universal Credit is treated the same as any other income that isn't disregarded. It's meant to make things more transparent though as I posted above, it does produce a perverse outcome. If this is the case, you will need to apply for Carer's Allowance to reduce the amount of Universal Credit you receive each month.

https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/council-tax/reductions-discounts-and-exemptions/council-tax-reduction-scheme

It's ridiculous that someone on a legacy benefit can be much better off under the above scheme even if the person receives more benefit than they would under Universal Credit.

Newcad

It is simply that for CTS purposes UC is regarded differently than legacy benefits, because working people can get UC.
So instead of 'passporting' as with some legacy benefits an income calculation is always done if you get UC.

Sam2022's situation is a bit of an unusual consequence of that income calculation though, and not one that councils would have even considered arising. (I'd certainly never seen or thought of it before).
Still the council has to follow the rules in force, and those are what they are.

The council can't do things differently for some people on UC but not for others, so that would leave raising their CTS income limit for everyone (UC or not) and not just those with both LCWRA Element and Carer Element.
That's unlikely to happen.

As already noted the way round it here is to claim CA, then once that is in place the UC payment will reduce, the CA payment will be disregarded for the CTS calculations, and so the CTS can be put in place again.

Sam2022

Update on CTR scheme and N.Yorks County Council.

A quick recap;
My partner and I receive UC, included are the LCWWRA for me and the Carer Element of UC.  I also receive PIP.
The new Council Tax Reduction Scheme came in in April 2023 due to Councils amalgamating together.
Prior to that we had to pay 15% of the Council Tax each year.  When they brought the new scheme in our amount to pay went to 25%, I was stupid not to question that, or this would have been sorted sooner.  
In April our payment went from £32 a month to £44.  Again I accepted it thinking it was what is was.  Then in July we got an updated bill saying our income had gone up due to benefit uprating in April.  As a result we had to pay 50% of the bill or £116 a month.
I rang up thinking a mistake had been made but got absolutely nowhere.  So I started to investigate for myself, it turned out that it was entirely down to the Carer Element of UC that the council counted as income however if you received Carers Allowance instead it was fully disregarded!  
I went onto Entitled to to run benefit checks and discovered that if we switched to Carers Allowance we would pay zero Council Tax.  Either for last year or this year.  So our Council was essentially punishing us for receiving the Carer Element of UC instead of Carers Allowance.  They are essentially the same thing, the qualifying criteria for both is the same and on UC you receive the same amount of money no matter which you get.
So I wrote directly to the CEO of the Council explaining exactly what I had found and accused the Council of discriminating against disabled people, as essentially both Carer Element and Carers Allowance are for the same thing and both should be disregarded as income by the council.
I received a reply saying they would look again at disregarding the LCWWRA at the next review, which is not what I had complained about.  So I have replied saying they clearly misunderstood my issue and asked for a further response.  I also advised we had claimed CA and when awarded the Carers Element would be removed from our UC meaning we would have a zero liability for Council Tax.
Last week CA was awarded and backdated to April.  I have been in touch with UC and they are aware and the recalculation of UC from April will be done.  We have not touched the Carers Allowance we have received in back money so that will cover the UC overpayment.
The Council should then owe us the Council tax we have paid since April.  
The most annoying thing is since the new scheme was brought in we have lost over £1000 in Household Support Fund vouchers that they decided to pay out to households with a zero Council Tax liability.

I WOULD URGE ANYONE ON UNIVERSAL CREDIT THAT HAS A CARER ELEMENT INCLUDED TO DOUBLE CHECK THEIR AREAS RULES.  YOU COULD BE PAYING COUNCIL TAX THAT YOU SHOULDNT BE.
I will update this once everything is fully sorted.