How do you know if debt has been sold?

BatCountry

Apologies, this has probably been asked before but can't find the answer on the DMP thread.

How do you work out if a defaulted debt has been passed to a collector or has been sold?

Thanks!

fatbelly

If it's a collector, they'll still refer to the lender as 'our client'

If it's a buyer like PRA, Lowell, Capquest, they might tell you what the debt formerly was

sourcrates

Normally when a debt is sold the new owners send an introduction letter, stating that they have bought your debt, and invite you to phone them to agree terms for repayment.

Usually in the same envelope is also a letter from the original lender informing you the debt has been sold.

As fatbelly said, debts that are equitably assigned to a collector will always refer to "their client" in any correspondence.

Brie

@sourcrates & @fatbelly
would an individual be able to spot things by a reference to CAIS on their credit report? Or am I reading things wrong?

sourcrates

Brie said:

@sourcrates & @fatbelly
would an individual be able to spot things by a reference to CAIS on their credit report? Or am I reading things wrong?

Sale of a debt can result in two separate entries on your file for the same account, one from the new owner, and one from the old.

That`s why sometimes you get posts complaining that "my debt is being reported twice".

It isn`t, its just separate entries from old and new owners, as long as the default date is the same and the original entry shows a zero balance, the new one shows the outstanding balance, all is well.

BatCountry

Ah brill, thanks so much all!

BatCountry

Sorry for the further post but I'm further down the rabbit hole now. I'll try to explain my position the best I can.

I started a self managed DMP at the start of the year. My tesco credit card defaulted not so long ago, debt is being managed by Wescot. I've today set up a payment plan to start paying the debt off. Now I'm not so sure I've done the right thing. 

Would i have been better waiting for the debt to be sold which would have given me more scope for a better F&F settlement down the line and perhaps a better outcome re: CCA requests?

I'm wondering now if Wescot have any authority or freedom to accept reduced F&Fs given they dont own the debt. Also, my plan is to submit a CCA request but this should just go back to Tesco who should easily provide the docs (its not a very old debt). My understanding is that CCAs become more difficult to produce when the debt has been sold. 

So should I have just waited to see if the debt was sold? I wouldn't want to get into the position where legal action is started. Would Wescot do this, or is it only the debt owner who would take this action. 

This situation has confused me because another debt has definitely been sold to Credit Securities and I was instantly offered 40% discount on the debt which correlates with my thinking above. It's a shame because I don't have the spare money at the moment to accept a reduced settlement. 

Thanks in advance! 

BatCountry

Just bumping my other comment above to see if anyone has any advice.

stu12345_2

from my experience wescot like other collections agencies can't make decisions on f and f offers. what they do is submit your offer and an income expenditure sheet you fill in cos they need to know how poor you are to their clients eg Tesco.

Tesco write back to them saying no offer or partial offer.


wescot can't take legal action, only Tesco can, wescot are simply the errand boy

also wescot were dealing with an RBS debt of mines but I made sporadic payments to wescot and RBS gave up and started using moorcroft  collection agency instead and stopped using wescot

I have had a debt with Tesco and for 3 years Tesco  won't offer not one penny off in a f and f offer.they refuse to sell the debt on or indeed use a collection agency.
they were the fastest to produce a cca agreement when I asked, in 9 days special delivery!

BatCountry

stu12345_2 said:

from my experience wescot like other collections agencies can't make decisions on f and f offers. what they do is submit your offer and an income expenditure sheet you fill in cos they need to know how poor you are to their clients eg Tesco.

Tesco write back to them saying no offer or partial offer.


wescot can't take legal action, only Tesco can, wescot are simply the errand boy

also wescot were dealing with an RBS debt of mines but I made sporadic payments to wescot and RBS gave up and started using moorcroft  collection agency instead and stopped using wescot

I have had a debt with Tesco and for 3 years Tesco  won't offer not one penny off in a f and f offer.they refuse to sell the debt on or indeed use a collection agency.
they were the fastest to produce a cca agreement when I asked, in 9 days special delivery!

This is really very helpful, thanks so much. So I think with the Tesco one I might just bite the bullet and get it paid off on a monthly payment plan and put my efforts in to the other ones. As said above, the debt for BetterBorrow which is now with Credit Securities might be a good one to negotiate when I'm in a position to do so as they are already offering a 40% discount. I might be able to get a better offer if I make some small(ish) payments. My logic being they would rather accept a lump sum now than wait 8 or so years for the full balance to be paid off. I'm going to submit a CCA request too, no harm and worth it for the sake of a pound!

These are the first two to default and be passed on to other companies so at least I know what to do now going forwards as the others start defaulting. Thanks again! No doubt I'll be back at some point with more questions! 

DisabledDan

BatCountry said:

Sorry for the further post but I'm further down the rabbit hole now. I'll try to explain my position the best I can.

I started a self managed DMP at the start of the year. My tesco credit card defaulted not so long ago, debt is being managed by Wescot. I've today set up a payment plan to start paying the debt off. Now I'm not so sure I've done the right thing. 

Would i have been better waiting for the debt to be sold which would have given me more scope for a better F&F settlement down the line and perhaps a better outcome re: CCA requests?

I'm wondering now if Wescot have any authority or freedom to accept reduced F&Fs given they dont own the debt. Also, my plan is to submit a CCA request but this should just go back to Tesco who should easily provide the docs (its not a very old debt). My understanding is that CCAs become more difficult to produce when the debt has been sold. 

So should I have just waited to see if the debt was sold? I wouldn't want to get into the position where legal action is started. Would Wescot do this, or is it only the debt owner who would take this action. 

This situation has confused me because another debt has definitely been sold to Credit Securities and I was instantly offered 40% discount on the debt which correlates with my thinking above. It's a shame because I don't have the spare money at the moment to accept a reduced settlement. 

Thanks in advance! 

I think you have jumped the gun, you needed to wait until the debt is defaulted and sold,  that means you will get a formal sounding letter saying the debt is being sold to another party, it will probably include a demand for the full debt.

Westcot and Moorcroft are usually do debt collection for the original creditor.  If you ignore them they run out of time and another may be employed to have a go, you just wait them out.  Each lender has it's own criteria, I think mine came to decision quickly because I had serviced the debt for years then made a fixed amount then token amounts, but finally I wrote and said I would not be making any further payments because of a massive life changing change in circumstances.  Social lenders tend to go for legal action but the companies that invent the money they lend you will sell it off for pennies in the pound so they can reduce their liquidity ratio and go invent more money for someone else.

The new owner will also employ their own debt collectors, sometimes the same companies but they all send you a series of letters designed to stress you out, the cycle of letters will culminate with a serious offer to settle the debt for as much as 60% off.  I think they go to 60% when the debt owner is about to appoint the next debt collector.  Your position will always be you have not got the money but you might be able to get a family member to lend you the money if they could could offer 85% off.

I advise keeping the debts spinning as the same speed because different companies interpret your credit record in different ways.  If they see evidence of spending then they are empowered to not offer discounts.  However, if they see a debt written down it can go two ways, either they think you have money or they think you are amenable to an offer.  Like all things they need to get to acceptance, when you are in negotiation if you can act as if you have no chance of servicing this debt and are now seeking a Debt Relief Order then they may be more encouraged to settle. 

However, if you are on linked in and they can see you just landed a new job or started your own business, or you show a nice holiday on Facebook then do not be surprised if they decline to make offers.  

Do not worry if you do not have the money to accept an offer right now, just keep paying what you would have paid into your fighting fund.  You need the self discipline of a ninja and cutting costs is all part of this. Moving your energy to Octopus for £50, getting a £3 sim, cutting subscriptions, using freecycle rather than ebay, join the nearby towns that are more affluent.  Put every spare penny into your deposit account.  

If you want help on specific costs then post and SOA

https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php