Sorry for the new thread. 4 year old ticket from a council car park.

mrflib

Hi, thanks for helping on these forums. I have read the guides, and I don't think my specific issue is covered.

We had a leased vehicle in my company's name about 5 years ago.  Our accountants have received a ZZPS letter for £170 for a council car park ticket issued August 2020.

We did not receive a ticket on the windscreen or via post, this letter 4 years later from ZZPS is the first we have heard.

I am asking for a bit of advice as this is referring to:

- A council ticket

- 4 years ago

- No proof the ticket was issued

- ZZPS letter when the company registered address, which is our accountants.

Is there a guide I can follow for my case here? I have not contacted ZZPS. Sorry if I've missed something obvious.

Cheers

Coupon-mad

Our accountants have received a ZZPS letter for £170 for a council car park ticket issued August 2020.

You didn't - it's not a Council case.

The letter will say which parking company is involved. Obviously ignore ZZPS, which you'll know from reading NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST.

The fourth post there covers ignoring debt crawlers. No link needed. See my signature.

Gr1pr

Strange that its ZZPS, who we expect to chase an outstanding parking ticket from a private parking company, not the council, for £170

Seems more like a demand about a private parking charge of £100, plus £70 added for a spurious debt collection charge 

But if it is council and not private, please post your query over on the ftla parking forum in the council section there 

But double check who the Claimant is first 

mrflib

I will take a look there... the only info I have to go on is the Contravention Location which is listed as:

CAR PARK AT SWANLEY TOWN COUNCIL CAR PARK AT THE BIRCHES SWANLEY BR8 7YL (which from a Google does appear to be council owned).

Would it be this forum? https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/

The other forum there appears to be for Private charges.

Thanks

Gr1pr

The link is correct 

But I think that you are assuming that its a council PCN based on the location, but personally I don't think that it is a council PCN, regardless of it being from a car park located at the council building, I think that its private, not council 

The debt collectors and the amount are typical private parking topics 

Check the letter to see who their clients are 

mrflib

Client: Civil Enforcement Ltd

So I can follow your guides and ignore the letter?

Gr1pr

mrflib said:

Client: Civil Enforcement Ltd

So I can follow your guides and ignore the letter?

Correct on both counts, backed up by Google street view too , A CEL private car park, not council, even though its the council building 

CEL are rehashing loads of old outstanding PCNs at the moment 

Follow the advice in post 4 of the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

If a LoC arrives , or a Court claim from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL, come back to this thread 

mrflib

You're doing gods work. Thanks mate.

KeithP

Swanley Park often crops up here.

Have a look at this thread...

County Court Claim From Civil Enforcement Ltd - £277 for 55 mins parking!! UPDATE - CLAIM RETRACTED!

LDast

If it is a Parking Charge Notice (most likely) then this is the forum for advice. If it is a Penalty Notice then FTLA is your best option.

Newbies/FAQ thread is your fist port of call. Too late to appeal. You are going to have to wait and see if/when they send a Letter of Claim. Tell your accountants to ignore anything and everything unless it is an LoC.

If the vehicle was, at the time, leased in your company name and the address that the lease company had was your accountants address, what has most likely happened is that 4 years ago, the lease company transferred liability for the PCN to your company but nothing happened after that. Now CEL have given ZZPS a bunch of old PCNs to chase up.

It is 99.999% likely that CEL failed to send a PoFA compliant NtH to your accountants at the time and it is now too late to do so. Only the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged parking event can be liable. They cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known hirer. There is no legal obligation for the known hirer to identify the unknown driver.

So, after ignoring ZZPS and any other debt collectors, they will hand it back to CEL who may or may not send an LoC of file a claim. As only the unknown driver is liable, under no circumstance must the known hirer (your company) identify the driver. If it ever actually got to court, the burden of proof is on CEL to prove who was driving. They can't unless your tell them, which you shouldn't if you want them together a spanking in court.

For now, instruct your accountants to ignore anything unless it is a real LoC.

mrflib

LDast said:

If it is a Parking Charge Notice (most likely) then this is the forum for advice. If it is a Penalty Notice then FTLA is your best option.

Newbies/FAQ thread is your fist port of call. Too late to appeal. You are going to have to wait and see if/when they send a Letter of Claim. Tell your accountants to ignore anything and everything unless it is an LoC.

If the vehicle was, at the time, leased in your company name and the address that the lease company had was your accountants address, what has most likely happened is that 4 years ago, the lease company transferred liability for the PCN to your company but nothing happened after that. Now CEL have given ZZPS a bunch of old PCNs to chase up.

It is 99.999% likely that CEL failed to send a PoFA compliant NtH to your accountants at the time and it is now too late to do so. Only the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged parking event can be liable. They cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known hirer. There is no legal obligation for the known hirer to identify the unknown driver.

So, after ignoring ZZPS and any other debt collectors, they will hand it back to CEL who may or may not send an LoC of file a claim. As only the unknown driver is liable, under no circumstance must the known hirer (your company) identify the driver. If it ever actually got to court, the burden of proof is on CEL to prove who was driving. They can't unless your tell them, which you shouldn't if you want them together a spanking in court.

For now, instruct your accountants to ignore anything unless it is a real LoC.

Thanks for this. To be clear it was a 3 year company lease for just one person's use, though the lease was 100% in the company's name. No one else could use the vehicle. So I'm unsure if the hirer angle works here?