Penetrating Damp on wall need advice

Floopy2009

Hi all,

So ftb and bought myslef a nice late 1800 terrace. Anyway thats where the fun ends. When i opened the door once i got the keys a strange musty smell in the hall hit me as i walked in. In the  lounge in the corner i spotted penetrating damp patches as well.

I went outside to the front of the property and notice there has some dpc holes done, the outpipe was very old and lose and guttering was rather thin on the roof compared to both neighbours either side.

The flooring in the front room also seems to rise towards the double glazed doors. I have done the jump test and they are solid and do not bounce, so it may need levelling out or they are rotten/sag, but not sure if the house was designed like that as it rises back on the concrete foundation part kitchen and living room 2 and yard on a slope. I have tried to look over the party wall to look if it is like that for the neigbours but because of the weather they have been out not had chance lol.

Both the hall and lounge are on suspended timber as there is a basment underneath. 

I had a level 3 survey before purchased and nothing about the structure was raised and was in good working order, these things have not happened in a few months.

I have ordered a humidifer and will for the basement  and well deep clean the housrwhich will help but will just mask the problem for now.

So what are my next steps :

The hall smell would that the be under the flooring or the timber beams rotten  ?

What tradesman do i get in to have a look at the suspended floor joists to see if they are issues underneath the floor boards and whether they have slopped due to moisture ?

Do i get a damp specialist to survey have a look and offer different solutions

Do i get a drainage survey to see anything is blocked and get the gutters checked and replaced

I have attached some pics of everyhing mentioned above,

Help would be appriciated as i would like to get the ball rolling on this as its a bit overwhelming should be a happy occasion not feeling it.

FreeBear

It looks like the damp "experts" have already been and done their stuff - Holes in the bricks just above ground level screams chemical DPC. They've probably slapped the waterproof render/plaster on the walls internally. That you have damp problems should tell you all you need to know about these treatments.

Sure, you could get a damp surveyor salesman in to diagnose the problem, and he'll probably try and sell you another round of chemical DPC plus waterproof plaster. But I would recommend getting the downpipe fixed and make sure the drain is clear. Might pay to put a Floplast debris gully at the bottom of each downpipe. Traps all the crud coming off the roof before it blocks the drain, and gives you an easy access point to check flow.

Also looks like the walls have been repointed in cement - Not a good idea with solid brick walls, but it is going to be very expensive to put right (unless you do the work yourself).

Floopy2009

FreeBear said:

It looks like the damp "experts" have already been and done their stuff - Holes in the bricks just above ground level screams chemical DPC. They've probably slapped the waterproof render/plaster on the walls internally. That you have damp problems should tell you all you need to know about these treatments.

Sure, you could get a damp surveyor salesman in to diagnose the problem, and he'll probably try and sell you another round of chemical DPC plus waterproof plaster. But I would recommend getting the downpipe fixed and make sure the drain is clear. Might pay to put a Floplast debris gully at the bottom of each downpipe. Traps all the crud coming off the roof before it blocks the drain, and gives you an easy access point to check flow.

Also looks like the walls have been repointed in cement - Not a good idea with solid brick walls, but it is going to be very expensive to put right (unless you do the work yourself).

@FreeBear. Thanks for advice yeah i am aware of the pointing, someonething i will have to look to change in the future, they must of done it at the same time as next door so obvs not aware of issue this may cause. I have booked in some quotes for downpipe and gutters get it all done now before the winter, and drainage survey is next week.

 
What tradesman do i get in to have a look at the suspended floor joists to see if they are issues underneath the floor boards and whether they have slopped due to moisture also the hall smell would that the be under the flooring or the timber beams rotten  ?

Realised this is in the wrong section and should be home improvements, so apologies but thanks for helping me on this, might drop it in another area later to see if anyone has had any similar experiences

ThisIsWeird

Hi Floopy.
Nice house - it shooo is purdy
How does the inside floor level compare with the outside?
You say your gutters are 'thin' compared to your neighb's, but they look like cast iron to me, and more substantial, and with a lovely ogee profile? If they work, then I'd keep them. If they leak, then they need sealing.
These gulley grids around the outside - can you lift them? What's it like underneath?
You say you have a basement? Could you explain further - can you see the floor joists and underside of the 'boards from there?
Pic 1 shows clear damp on two walls, which is well defined so suggests 'penetrating' or possibly rising. The strange thing is that the brass-socket wall is shared with your neighb, but presumably also has this 'basement' underneath it? Having a basement surely means that this wall goes down at least a meter before it sits on the ground, so it ain't rising? So that leaves 'penetrating' as the cause, and there are signs on the outside of that wall having be soaked - it is stained and mouldy (although mostly around the green DP, I have to say).
Could we have a bigger picture, please - perhaps the floorplan, adding where each DP is, and the damp stains?
You'll be saying 'hello' to your new neighb's soon, I'm sure, so also ask if they have any issues on their side of that 'brass' wall.
Also be sure to have a good look outside the next time it rains.
The house might have been excessively musty simply due to it not having been ventilated whilst waiting for sale - give it maximin airing!

Floopy2009

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Floopy.
Nice house - it shooo is purdy
How does the inside floor level compare with the outside?
You say your gutters are 'thin' compared to your neighb's, but they look like cast iron to me, and more substantial, and with a lovely ogee profile? If they work, then I'd keep them. If they leak, then they need sealing.
These gulley grids around the outside - can you lift them? What's it like underneath?
You say you have a basement? Could you explain further - can you see the floor joists and underside of the 'boards from there?
Pic 1 shows clear damp on two walls, which is well defined so suggests 'penetrating' or possibly rising. The strange thing is that the brass-socket wall is shared with your neighb, but presumably also has this 'basement' underneath it? Having a basement surely means that this wall goes down at least a meter before it sits on the ground, so it ain't rising? So that leaves 'penetrating' as the cause, and there are signs on the outside of that wall having be soaked - it is stained and mouldy (although mostly around the green DP, I have to say).
Could we have a bigger picture, please - perhaps the floorplan, adding where each DP is, and the damp stains?
You'll be saying 'hello' to your new neighb's soon, I'm sure, so also ask if they have any issues on their side of that 'brass' wall.
Also be sure to have a good look outside the next time it rains.
The house might have been excessively musty simply due to it not having been ventilated whilst waiting for sale - give it maximin airing!

@thisisweird, thanks, everyone who has seen says its nice, i am with a sore head trying to decide what to do first and sort with all the repairs and issues i keep finding, in regards to your questions

"How does the inside floor level compare with the outside?"

I have attached some pics of the front room, with fire place where you can see the slant. Weird enough i had an idea and looked at old pics going back from right move and i swear the slope is there see what you think ? I suppose i could level buy sistering or replace the joist etc if needed to bring it level, as it will do my head in lol.

"You say your gutters are 'thin' compared to your neighb's, but they look like cast iron to me, and more substantial, and with a lovely ogee profile? If they work, then I'd keep them. If they leak, then they need sealing.
These gulley grids around the outside - can you lift them? What's it like underneath?"

Yeah i am going to get them checked for leaks, gulley grids please see pic they did have some debris in them which i removed and the pipe still had alot of debris which i couldnt remove

"You say you have a basement? Could you explain further - can you see the floor joists and underside of the 'boards from there?"

Please see pic of basment the damp is on the last two section of walls, there has been an issue there befores. The beams cant see them as panelling has been placed on the ceiling which has buckled in parts in the pic. Not sure whether to remove the panels especially from the damp wall.

I have attached the floor plans

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/144326816#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY

The basement sits under reception 1 and entrance hall. The damp patches and dp are in the corner of reception 1, by the patio windows the basement walls sit under them where there is previous damp issues or still are. There is another dp in bedroom 2 by the window, these i reakon have been done a good few years ago.

."The house might have been excessively musty simply due to it not having been ventilated whilst waiting for sale - give it maximin airing!".

An old man lived there before moving to a bungalow so he must of lived with that smelll not the best for his health.

If you need any more pics let me know lol  

ThisIsWeird

Floopy2009 said:

@thisisweird, thanks, everyone who has seen says its nice, i am with a sore head trying to decide what to do first and sort with all the repairs and issues i keep finding, in regards to your questions
"How does the inside floor level compare with the outside?"
I have attached some pics of the front room, with fire place where you can see the slant. Weird enough i had an idea and looked at old pics going back from right move and i swear the slope is there see what you think ? I suppose i could level buy sistering or replace the joist etc if needed to bring it level, as it will do my head in lol.
"You say your gutters are 'thin' compared to your neighb's, but they look like cast iron to me, and more substantial, and with a lovely ogee profile? If they work, then I'd keep them. If they leak, then they need sealing.
These gulley grids around the outside - can you lift them? What's it like underneath?"
Yeah i am going to get them checked for leaks, gulley grids please see pic they did have some debris in them which i removed and the pipe still had alot of debris which i couldnt remove
"You say you have a basement? Could you explain further - can you see the floor joists and underside of the 'boards from there?"
Please see pic of basment the damp is on the last two section of walls, there has been an issue there befores. The beams cant see them as panelling has been placed on the ceiling which has buckled in parts in the pic. Not sure whether to remove the panels especially from the damp wall.
I have attached the floor plans
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/144326816#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY
The basement sits under reception 1 and entrance hall. The damp patches and dp are in the corner of reception 1, by the patio windows the basement walls sit under them where there is previous damp issues or still are. There is another dp in bedroom 2 by the window, these i reakon have been done a good few years ago.
."The house might have been excessively musty simply due to it not having been ventilated whilst waiting for sale - give it maximin airing!".
An old man lived there before moving to a bungalow so he must of lived with that smelll not the best for his health.
If you need any more pics let me know lol

  

Good photos. Did I mention that is a very puuurrrdddyyy ho...

Ok, Pic 1 - I can't say I notice any particular slope, nothing that would drive me nuts in any case. Does the floor feel solid underfoot?

Pic 2 - If you want or need to investigate the floor joists, that cladding needs to come off! But, not sure you do.

Pic 3 - that is weird damp staining, the way it is very defined, and also appears to go up the wall in the corner a fair amount - that ain't 'rising', so that leaves 'penetrating'. And pen is either from the outside, from above trickling down through the wall (very unlikely), or from next door (ditto).

Pic 4 - the black and green downpipes are the same one! Lol. There appears to be lots of either water staining, or the remnants of a climbing plant on there, or both. If the DP is allowing water to course down the wall from around halfway up - as it appears - then it's due to either a faulty connection, a break, or it being blocked further down - and I'm going to guess it's the latter.

Have you examined the DP as far as you can? Any breaks or holes? The green algae staining on the wall - is there a DP joint there?

When will it next rain where you are?

Could we have one more pic, please, of the bottom of that DP showing how it outlets.

Floopy2009

ThisIsWeird said:

Floopy2009 said:

@thisisweird, thanks, everyone who has seen says its nice, i am with a sore head trying to decide what to do first and sort with all the repairs and issues i keep finding, in regards to your questions
"How does the inside floor level compare with the outside?"
I have attached some pics of the front room, with fire place where you can see the slant. Weird enough i had an idea and looked at old pics going back from right move and i swear the slope is there see what you think ? I suppose i could level buy sistering or replace the joist etc if needed to bring it level, as it will do my head in lol.
"You say your gutters are 'thin' compared to your neighb's, but they look like cast iron to me, and more substantial, and with a lovely ogee profile? If they work, then I'd keep them. If they leak, then they need sealing.
These gulley grids around the outside - can you lift them? What's it like underneath?"
Yeah i am going to get them checked for leaks, gulley grids please see pic they did have some debris in them which i removed and the pipe still had alot of debris which i couldnt remove
"You say you have a basement? Could you explain further - can you see the floor joists and underside of the 'boards from there?"
Please see pic of basment the damp is on the last two section of walls, there has been an issue there befores. The beams cant see them as panelling has been placed on the ceiling which has buckled in parts in the pic. Not sure whether to remove the panels especially from the damp wall.
I have attached the floor plans
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/144326816#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY
The basement sits under reception 1 and entrance hall. The damp patches and dp are in the corner of reception 1, by the patio windows the basement walls sit under them where there is previous damp issues or still are. There is another dp in bedroom 2 by the window, these i reakon have been done a good few years ago.
."The house might have been excessively musty simply due to it not having been ventilated whilst waiting for sale - give it maximin airing!".
An old man lived there before moving to a bungalow so he must of lived with that smelll not the best for his health.
If you need any more pics let me know lol

  

Good photos. Did I mention that is a very puuurrrdddyyy ho...

Ok, Pic 1 - I can't say I notice any particular slope, nothing that would drive me nuts in any case. Does the floor feel solid underfoot?

Pic 2 - If you want or need to investigate the floor joists, that cladding needs to come off! But, not sure you do.

Pic 3 - that is weird damp staining, the way it is very defined, and also appears to go up the wall in the corner a fair amount - that ain't 'rising', so that leaves 'penetrating'. And pen is either from the outside, from above trickling down through the wall (very unlikely), or from next door (ditto).

Pic 4 - the black and green downpipes are the same one! Lol. There appears to be lots of either water staining, or the remnants of a climbing plant on there, or both. If the DP is allowing water to course down the wall from around halfway up - as it appears - then it's due to either a faulty connection, a break, or it being blocked further down - and I'm going to guess it's the latter.

Have you examined the DP as far as you can? Any breaks or holes? The green algae staining on the wall - is there a DP joint there?

When will it next rain where you are?

Could we have one more pic, please, of the bottom of that DP showing how it outlets.

@ThisIsWeird floor is sound, done bouncing etc, i wonder if its more to do with the wood floor that i am noticing the small compared to having a carpet down.

Yeah i dont fancy taking all that cladding off, for no reason until i vamp up the basement a bit.

The pipe i have enclosed where it bends and goes. It doesnt go to a the drain but away from it into the garden and drains onto the land.

Cracks etc on the pipe, one section is a bit wobbly, however i did noticed how pressed the drain pipe was onto the wall of the house when they created the add on black curve pipe compared to the rest of the drain pipe, i am more inclined now to think there is an issue with the dp. Where that is effectng the basement is another question.

Also need some pointing sorted as well, again lovely to have an old skool drain but i dont think its doing my purdy house any good lol

ThisIsWeird

Floopy2009 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Floopy2009 said:

@thisisweird, thanks, everyone who has seen says its nice, i am with a sore head trying to decide what to do first and sort with all the repairs and issues i keep finding, in regards to your questions
"How does the inside floor level compare with the outside?"
I have attached some pics of the front room, with fire place where you can see the slant. Weird enough i had an idea and looked at old pics going back from right move and i swear the slope is there see what you think ? I suppose i could level buy sistering or replace the joist etc if needed to bring it level, as it will do my head in lol.
"You say your gutters are 'thin' compared to your neighb's, but they look like cast iron to me, and more substantial, and with a lovely ogee profile? If they work, then I'd keep them. If they leak, then they need sealing.
These gulley grids around the outside - can you lift them? What's it like underneath?"
Yeah i am going to get them checked for leaks, gulley grids please see pic they did have some debris in them which i removed and the pipe still had alot of debris which i couldnt remove
"You say you have a basement? Could you explain further - can you see the floor joists and underside of the 'boards from there?"
Please see pic of basment the damp is on the last two section of walls, there has been an issue there befores. The beams cant see them as panelling has been placed on the ceiling which has buckled in parts in the pic. Not sure whether to remove the panels especially from the damp wall.
I have attached the floor plans
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/144326816#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY
The basement sits under reception 1 and entrance hall. The damp patches and dp are in the corner of reception 1, by the patio windows the basement walls sit under them where there is previous damp issues or still are. There is another dp in bedroom 2 by the window, these i reakon have been done a good few years ago.
."The house might have been excessively musty simply due to it not having been ventilated whilst waiting for sale - give it maximin airing!".
An old man lived there before moving to a bungalow so he must of lived with that smelll not the best for his health.
If you need any more pics let me know lol

  

Good photos. Did I mention that is a very puuurrrdddyyy ho...

Ok, Pic 1 - I can't say I notice any particular slope, nothing that would drive me nuts in any case. Does the floor feel solid underfoot?

Pic 2 - If you want or need to investigate the floor joists, that cladding needs to come off! But, not sure you do.

Pic 3 - that is weird damp staining, the way it is very defined, and also appears to go up the wall in the corner a fair amount - that ain't 'rising', so that leaves 'penetrating'. And pen is either from the outside, from above trickling down through the wall (very unlikely), or from next door (ditto).

Pic 4 - the black and green downpipes are the same one! Lol. There appears to be lots of either water staining, or the remnants of a climbing plant on there, or both. If the DP is allowing water to course down the wall from around halfway up - as it appears - then it's due to either a faulty connection, a break, or it being blocked further down - and I'm going to guess it's the latter.

Have you examined the DP as far as you can? Any breaks or holes? The green algae staining on the wall - is there a DP joint there?

When will it next rain where you are?

Could we have one more pic, please, of the bottom of that DP showing how it outlets.

@ThisIsWeird floor is sound, done bouncing etc, i wonder if its more to do with the wood floor that i am noticing the small compared to having a carpet down.

Yeah i dont fancy taking all that cladding off, for no reason until i vamp up the basement a bit.

The pipe i have enclosed where it bends and goes. It doesnt go to a the drain but away from it into the garden and drains onto the land.

Cracks etc on the pipe, one section is a bit wobbly, however i did noticed how pressed the drain pipe was onto the wall of the house when they created the add on black curve pipe compared to the rest of the drain pipe, i am more inclined now to think there is an issue with the dp. Where that is effectng the basement is another question.

Also need some pointing sorted as well, again lovely to have an old skool drain but i dont think its doing my purdy house any good lol

Interesting.

You really need a general builder, ideally one familiar with that age and style of house, to examine that DP and drain arrangement.

Summat's amiss. The end of that DP should be heading into that existing round drain gulley and away to either a soakaway or the sewer system (if that's how it was originally designed). Instead, a poorly-fitted lower pipe section - usefully painted green to match the ability of the installer - is diverting the roof water away from the house and on to the front land. I suspect this was done 'cos the drain was blocked, and that was their 'solution'.

The whole drain there needs looking at, and the DP fixed properly. I suspect - hope - that the damp issue is all down to this DP and drain arrangement.

That metal-gridded gulley has a drain point in it? Does it work? If so, surely that's the obvious way to remove the DP's emissions?

Anyhoo, it needs someone who 'knows' to have a look :-)

RAS

A few queries

The plan indicates a window in the basement? Does that exist?

Looking at your pictures, I think there are remnants of an ivy on both the ground floor wall and surround? Did you remove that or was it removed before you moved in?

There is a sandstone flag below the nasty ground level bend in the DP, can you lift that, is there anything underneath? Possibly an original drain into which the DP once drained.

It looks like the installation of the front French window took place at the same time as the patio and new rainwater drain was installed. Is is possible that in order to avoid a step, they built the patio at a higher level than the original ground? And what does that rain catchment drain into?

Floopy2009

Hi all so an update, 

@FreeBear, @ThisIsWeird, @RAS

I got the both drains survyed and cleaned, they did need a good clear to be honest. Fairplay the chap was good who came and explained the system etc but was taken back by the setup. Bascially the orange pipe drain goes through next doors garden and finishes at the end of their garden and drains into the ground naturally it does not go to any system. He reakons thats why they have but that black pipe to divert away as possbly it has been blocked before and they cant clean it without destroying next door neightbours garden. Makes you think if that whats caused the old issue with the wall in the basement previously with a blockage ?

He suggest cut a bit more of the pipe off and add additional pipping so it ends further down the garden where it is dry and less saturated, as a cheap alternative than installing a gulley for now, and place a rubber bung in the orange drain pipe. Eco drain was a bit clogged and was cleared but all pipes looked ok from both outlets.

So yesterday we have bad rain fall so i went out to check the location and long behold the problem was identified, see pics below, the leak is saturating that location which in turn has created that damp. 

So what do we think blocked or needs that isolated location repaired, not sure if its cracked to be honest.

Once done is it case to monitor next rainfall, if all ok try and dehumidifer the damp internal wall, lime some of the mortar holes externally seen in pic especially the ones next to the pipe and then once dried strip back to brick and replaster the interior with breathable products ?

There are also some very old dpc holes not sure whether to fill them in as well

Cheers for all you help we nearly there now.....

ThisIsWeird

Well, clearly a literal issue there

Are the two gutters joined together? Should they be? Are they both 'cast', even tho' different styles?

It is common, especially on older terraces, for the adjoined houses to share a continuous gutter, often with fewer downpipes than may, by modern standards, be considered ideal (ie less than one per house), since weather conditions appear to be more extreme these days.

Your situation appears to be largely a fault with your neighb's gutter, but - even if it is - the overall resolution may involve a bit more than asking them to sort it. If, for example, the original gutter was shared, but someone - either a previous owner of your house, or your neighbour's - changed this layout and capped off the ends you see there, then the 'guilty party' remains liable for any undesired result.

Anyhoo, you get on with yer neighb? Time for a friendly chat. Also worth some research - say Google maps/earth/whatevs, old sales partics (for either house), looking at other similar terraces in the 'hood, and stuff like that, to try and work out what gutter system should be in place.

Confirm - the existing gulley for that DP - is it working at all?

Edit: Looking at the wider pic of your house, that's the only DP I can see. If someone capped off the two - previously connected - neighbouring gutters at that point, and the neighbouring gutter has not been realigned to flow away from that separation, then good chance the neighbour's gutter is simply overflowing at that point. That scenario is only one possibility, of course, but it would be one where your neighb is unlikely to be liable. Worth checking your deeds, too, to see if there's any mention of the rainwater system.