Section 75 claim help - Sykes cottages - eligibility?

sheramber

Did you ask tommove to another property with a working fridge?

Time2Go_25

If memory serves me correctly Sykes were one of the most difficult companies to deal with during covid. I for one certainly wouldn't book anything with them.

waitpatiently

Alderbank said:

waitpatiently said:

DullGreyGuy said:

waitpatiently said:
We can quantify lost time and loss of value, and loss of enjoyment to try and reclaim directly from Sykes / owner 60% of the whole property rental fee. 

Is Sykes the owner?

Looks like they're not on most the cottages at least in which case S75 will fail because you paid a third party (Sykes) and not directly to the Supplier (cottage owner) but S75 requires a direct relationship between Debtor, Creditor and Supplier

No Sykes don’t own the property. After reading this, in theory Sykes could give you a bomb site when you turn up, then say they’re not the owner, and dismiss you as you never had any leg to stand on to begin with? Or am I missing something, because Sykes haven’t even really allowed us any route to complain even when we’ve read through and applied their complaints procedure.

the booking conditions are here: https://www.northumbria-cottages.co.uk/terms/booking

it gets even stickier as it’s Sykes, then Northumbria Cottages, who then handle it on behalf of the owner so whilst we were there, NC handled things such as the engineer and speaking to the owner. We never spoke to the owner. We never dealt with Sykes apart from at the start to call about the discovery and only now to complain for some reason, despite NC dealing with the issues during the week.

This is the business model you need if you want to squash any hope of consumer rights

Have you even read the T&Cs before making all these accusations?

The T&Cs are clear that you have a consumer contract with the owner and they list the contractual terms which the owner has committed to (8 AN OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITIES) and (17 OWNERS' LIABILITY).

Near the end:
19.2 Your legal rights: Nothing...affects your legal rights or any right you may have to bring legal proceedings against an Owner under a Rental Contract.

...so nothing at all 'squashing any hope of consumer rights'?

The owners knew the fridge was beyond use well before you arrived at the property so I would start my claim with:

8 AN OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITIES

An Owner will...provide an accurate, complete and up to date description of the Property, and as soon as reasonably possible; notifying you in writing of any changes to the description of the Property and/or Rental Services relating to your Booking which would make our descriptions of the Property inaccurate, incomplete or misleading;

so in my opinion they could and certainly should have emailed you warning that there was currently no working fridge or freezer in the property which is located 18 miles from the nearest source of fresh food.

However since it is so remote, they appear to have taken all reasonable steps to replace the fridge as soon as possible and the delays were entirely due to the engineer who was probably the only person available to do the job at that time in that location, so the delays were beyond their reasonable control. That will moderate their liability.

I have read the T&Cs which is I understand rental contract that was breached. I am angry and feel unheard by Sykes so my comment was sent hastily in my rage. Sorry, I’m just feeling lower and lower the more I need to think and deal with it so it’s hard to keep emotions out of it 😞 
Thanks for the reply.

waitpatiently

MobileSaver said:

waitpatiently said:

Sykes rushed in with a menial and insulting 5% goodwill gesture. ... I accept that 60% is high

As others have said, percentages aren't very helpful in this instance, roughly how much did you pay for the no week in the cottage?

MobileSaver said:

waitpatiently said:

Sykes rushed in with a menial and insulting 5% goodwill gesture. ... I accept that 60% is high

As others have said, percentages aren't very helpful in this instance, roughly how much did you pay for the week in the cottage?

£1700+
Is it reasonable to expect a fridge freezer as we deliberately paid more for a nice property to feed my family by cooking for a week. 

As my original expectations for what we should get back are too high, what would seem more reasonable?

waitpatiently

sheramber said:

Did you ask tommove to another property with a working fridge?

We didn’t ask to move.

We asked for access to a fridge which was in another vacant property but we didn’t ask to move as the engineer was expected to visit to the property to inspect the fridge.  

However, the visit became a week of waiting until Friday as the the agent kept moving the date later until it was the end of the week.  Sykes never offered to move us either.

Time2Go_25

I don't know what a reasonable refund, if any, would be. Have you got any contact details for the owner, if so I would start by contacting them directly to explain your grievance and to ask for compensation. You need to detail what the issues were, no fridge, broken promises, having to wait for the engineer, the engineer being able to come and go as they please with first arranging it with you. If you don't you'll need to get it from Sykes or northumbira-cottages

With hindsight you probably should have moved cottages on day 1.

DullGreyGuy

waitpatiently said:

DullGreyGuy said:

waitpatiently said:
We can quantify lost time and loss of value, and loss of enjoyment to try and reclaim directly from Sykes / owner 60% of the whole property rental fee. 

Is Sykes the owner?

Looks like they're not on most the cottages at least in which case S75 will fail because you paid a third party (Sykes) and not directly to the Supplier (cottage owner) but S75 requires a direct relationship between Debtor, Creditor and Supplier

No Sykes don’t own the property. After reading this, in theory Sykes could give you a bomb site when you turn up, then say they’re not the owner, and dismiss you as you never had any leg to stand on to begin with? Or am I missing something, because Sykes haven’t even really allowed us any route to complain even when we’ve read through and applied their complaints procedure.

the booking conditions are here: https://www.northumbria-cottages.co.uk/terms/booking

it gets even stickier as it’s Sykes, then Northumbria Cottages, who then handle it on behalf of the owner so whilst we were there, NC handled things such as the engineer and speaking to the owner. We never spoke to the owner. We never dealt with Sykes apart from at the start to call about the discovery and only now to complain for some reason, despite NC dealing with the issues during the week.

This is the business model you need if you want to squash any hope of consumer rights

They could and you would sue the cottage owner with whom you are in contract with just the Consumer Credit Act wouldn't provide you with an additional layer of protection. 

It's actually the other way around, they'd much rather that you make a S75 claim from your bank because that comes out of your bank's pocket not from Sykes nor the Cottage Owner. The CCA, which was drafted when credit cards were rarely held, however isn't so unfair to banks to make them liable for all scenarios... the theory was the bank would have vetted the supplier before being willing to allow them to be the beneficiary of the credit they were giving their customer, that works with tied finance (think interest free credit you get from the shop when you buy a bed) but not with credit cards where your bank has no control over if the supplier can or cannot accept card payments.

waitpatiently

We’ve been escalated to Sykes management - it’s Sykes who deal with things on the customer side, and Northum Cottages as the ‘brand’ who work for the owner. It doesn’t really help an awful lot. We will try to pursue the owner’s contact details.

Grumpy_chap

waitpatiently said:

MobileSaver said:

waitpatiently said:

Sykes rushed in with a menial and insulting 5% goodwill gesture. ... I accept that 60% is high

As others have said, percentages aren't very helpful in this instance, roughly how much did you pay for the week in the cottage?

£1700+
Is it reasonable to expect a fridge freezer as we deliberately paid more for a nice property to feed my family by cooking for a week. 

As my original expectations for what we should get back are too high, what would seem more reasonable?

You paid £1.7k for the week's use of the holiday cottage.
You had no fridge.
You have been offered 5% refund = £85
You want 60% refund = £1k
Cheapest fridge freezers on Curry's website are under £150.

I would suggest the £85, which is half the cost of a fridge freezer is more than generous.

Arunmor

I don't know how we survived for a fortnight in a caravan in the 70s with no fridge.

Don't sweat the small stuff, ask for 20% and accept 10%.