Due to be served section 21. Advice please

TwistedCitron

My estate agent has informed me that my landlord will be serving a section 21 on me, as she wants to sell her house and move in here. What I would like to know is do the normal end of tenancy rules apply?  As she will be gutting this house. It failed it's EPC certificate, needs new doors windows, cooker 15 ish years old. Carpets over 15 years etc. Do I do end of term (extra) cleaning or do I just leave it clean and tidy. I have lived here for 9 years, only problem I had was carpet moths during COVID lockdown, which I have been dealing with using spray chemicals. Damaged was done to carpets though. 

la531983

That would be a discussion you would need to have with her, get it in writing though, little point paying for a deep clean if its being gutted.
Also get it in writing that the carpets are being replaced anyway, last thing you want is to move on and then her try it on with the deposit protection scheme.

BikingBud

TwistedCitron said:

My estate agent has informed me that my landlord will be serving a section 21 on me, as she wants to sell her house and move in here. What I would like to know is do the normal end of tenancy rules apply?  As she will be gutting this house. It failed it's EPC certificate, needs new doors windows, cooker 15 ish years old. Carpets over 15 years etc. Do I do end of term (extra) cleaning or do I just leave it clean and tidy. I have lived here for 9 years, only problem I had was carpet moths during COVID lockdown, which I have been dealing with using spray chemicals. Damaged was done to carpets though. 

Which one?

Sell it or move in?

She cannot do both.

Notwithstanding this ambiguity if she wants to gut it then understanding what effort to clean you need to expend is key. Just clear your personal kit and rubbish would I suggest be the minimum but she might be well within her rights to claim costs that might subsidise the planned works.

Only you and her know the standard at check in and how that might be viewed and assessed at checkout. I would be very wary of expecting to just walk away.

Communication, in writing, is key.

theartfullodger

Is this England or elsewhere?

An s21, even if valid (many many are invalid) does not end a tenancy nor compel tenant to leave .  Only court can do that.  Probable timescale if you decline to go until you have to  (if valid) about 6 months.

Until actually served you won't know your position.  When it arrives check it (Google "section 21 nearly legal" ).

A sensible landlord will bribe a tenant to go.  However being sensible is no requirement for being a landlord (or having even half a brain).

Given state of house no deductions from deposit should happen.  Why did you let them get away with renting substandard property ?  Terrible!

Artful: Landlord since 2000.

Jemma01

Are you on a rolling contract? Or an assured tenancy?

Assuming you are on a rolling contract, yes you should clean the house thoroughly, otherwise it'll be taken out of your deposit for someone else to clean. Does your contract mandate a professional cleaner?

If the carpet is damaged and it is 9 years old, you maybe able yo dispute that because either way, it is probably due a replacement.

I'd say don't leave on bad terms as you may need a reference.

theartfullodger

Jemma01 said:

Are you on a rolling contract? Or an assured tenancy?

S21 only apply to ASTs, not Assured Tenancies.

Such a shame tenants rarely require references from previous tenants about how the landlords behave or harass tenants (just as reasonable a requirement as landlords requiring references).

Best wishes to all 

Artful, landlord since 2000.

propertyrental

Jemma01 said:

Are you on a rolling contract? Or an assured tenancy?

No idea of the relevance of the distinction here. I suspect you mean 'Assured Shorthold Tenancy' which is a completely different legal concept to an 'Assured Tenancy'.

Plus, of course, both an AST and an AT can be either 'rolling' or 'fixed term'.

What I would like to know is do the normal end of tenancy rules apply? 

Yes, from a legal perspective, the same rules apply when the tenancy ends. Check out inspection compared against check-in, and any damage/dirt etc can be charged to the tenant, usually via the deposit. The tenant can then, of course, challenge these via the relevant deposit scheme, but note that the scheme arbitrators will not be interested in what future plans the LL may have, they will only consider the state of the property at check out Vs check in (bearing in mind fair wear and tear and if relevant, betterment).

Having said that, a discussion with a reasonable LL should lead to agreement about limiting what the T needs to pay for if the LL plans to gut the property - but that is a negotiation, not a legal argument.

newsgroupmonkey_

We had carpet moths (we had no idea until the damage was done - they were under the sofa)

Because the carpet was over 10 years old (we'd been there 7), the Landlord just accepted it and we got our full deposit back. They can't get betterment. It was a cheap carpet.

But yes, I'd still get it as absolutely clean as you can. We always used to try and get it cleaner than we moved in. One place was filthy when we moved in and we left it in an OK state, but certainly not "professionally clean".

Murphybear

BikingBud said:

TwistedCitron said:

My estate agent has informed me that my landlord will be serving a section 21 on me, as she wants to sell her house and move in here. What I would like to know is do the normal end of tenancy rules apply?  As she will be gutting this house. It failed it's EPC certificate, needs new doors windows, cooker 15 ish years old. Carpets over 15 years etc. Do I do end of term (extra) cleaning or do I just leave it clean and tidy. I have lived here for 9 years, only problem I had was carpet moths during COVID lockdown, which I have been dealing with using spray chemicals. Damaged was done to carpets though. 

Which one?

Sell it or move in?

She cannot do both.

Notwithstanding this ambiguity if she wants to gut it then understanding what effort to clean you need to expend is key. Just clear your personal kit and rubbish would I suggest be the minimum but she might be well within her rights to claim costs that might subsidise the planned works.

Only you and her know the standard at check in and how that might be viewed and assessed at checkout. I would be very wary of expecting to just walk away.

Communication, in writing, is key.

I don’t think it’s ambiguous.  I took it to mean she’s selling the property she lives in and wants to move into the rental she owns 

BikingBud

Fair shout my bad 😞

TwistedCitron

Thank you for your replies. On first renting my house the estate agent informed me that my LL was quite strapped for cash, so I have never made much fuss about things. Luckily my son will help me fix small things so I don't have to worry my LL. Although my house looks scruffy ( all windows blown, exterior walls paint and plaster falling off) it is warm dry and no damp, I keep my windows open to air. I don't like to moan I had a house with garden and parking so was very happy. It's a shame it failed it's EPC as I'm sure that's why she is selling her lovely big house to move into my small 1 bed one!