Financial Consent Order Form D81

sleepymans

Ex husband and I split up amicably and obtained an online Divorce (Final Order) in May 24. We have agreed to split home and savings 50/50 and he is living elsewhere. We are both retired and have separate SP and DB pensions. We have agreed to keep our own SP and DB pensions and neither will claim on the other. No children or dependants.

We are now completing the DB1 to obtain a clean break and wish to do this without involving solicitors as it’s amicable and agreed and we have all the information we feel we need.

The form asks for CETV in respect of pensions but are they absolutely necessary as both pensions are in payment and we have the written evidence of what’s payable? Because we are divorced already there is no death benefits payable. Surely the Court don’t need CETV as well?

Not sure if it’s relevant but I am remarrying in August. My new husband will be purchasing my ex husbands half of the home and valuations have been agreed. We intend the conveyancing will be done by solicitors in the normal way.

Will the Court insist on costly and time consuming CETVs?

TIA

AskAsk

I am applying for the consent order myself and I started to complete D81 form but soon realised you can't do this part yourself and need to instruct solicitors to do it, as in addition to D81 form, you also need to complete form A, which isn't so obvious as to what you are supposed to put on there.

You will also need the consent order to be drafted for the court to approve and that needs to be drafted by a solicitor.

We have decided to instruct a company called "Amicable" who do a fixed fee consent order application for you.  That way you don't need two separate solicitors.

The financial disclosure is very detailed and asks about assets, income, valuables like jewellery, watches, collectibles etc, car, any other assets.  I found it to be quite intrusive and wonder at the security of the disclosure as it asks the name of the bank where you have your savings and what type of account.  It also asks about investment, like shares.

They use this to complete D81 form.  Your spouse completes their disclosure and you complete yours and then you can see each other's disclosure and both need to sign that they have seen each other's asset disclosure and agree the split.

Amicable will also draft the consent order.

They will advise you on whether your agreement is fair and can advise you on how to explain the split so the court can see why you have decided on a certain split.

We have been grounded as we need CETV and my husband is a member of the Teacher Pension Scheme and there is currently a delay with the scheme calculating CETV.  We have been told that we need the CETV as without it, you can't submit the application as you haven't seen the full disclosure, and neither will the court as they need to approve your decision of how the asset is split, even if you have made your own decisions, the court can overturn it if they disagree with it.  I think this is very intrusive of the court and misplaced authority as they shouldn't have a say when couples have agreed how to split assets but I think they worry that abuse is in place.  Abuse from one spouse on the other in the decision or a decision where the state will end up picking up the bill because the husband won't provide suffiently for the ex wife and children.

It is frustrating that we are stuck in the complex system when our situation like yourself, is very simple because we don't have children and we both have more than we will ever need, so there isn't going to be any call on the public purse, but nonetheless, we still have to go through the rigmarol of it all.

So unfortunately, you will need the CETV.  You will also need the consent order, which needs to be in legal wording, and drafted in line with the court's requirement for consent orders.

I have looked up tax implications and stamp duty implications and I think it is best to wait for the consent order before doing anything with regard to buying out assets.  Also to apply for the final order after the consent order has been granted and the asset transfers have been done as asset transfer after you have already divorced will have an implication on capital gains and stamp duty.

Hoenir

The purpose of full disclosure is to ensure neither party is disadvantaged. While agreement maybe "mutual". One party not be aware of the financial implications. Or one party is influencing the discussion to their advantage. CETV's being one good example of where people' understanding mybe lacking. Full transparency is perffectly reasonable. Those that shout the loudest are often the ones with something they wish to hide. 

sleepymans

I can understand the need for CETV in most circumstances. I really don’t understand the need for CETVs where the only pensions in existence are state pension and defined benefit (public service)  pensions already in payment. 

The parties, any solicitors and the Court can see with full transparency the value and scope of the pensions.

ive since seen Wikivorce offer a clean break Consent order preparation service for £359 where no pensions are to be shared (£459 where there are pensions sharing involved)

This sort of implies there is a choice about sharing pensions or not sharing pensions. But maybe it means if no pensions exist? I’ll try and find out.

sleepymans

Would defined Benefit Pensions which are several years in payment, have a CETV?

Specifically one is from the old Railway Pensions and one is Civil Service Classic.
TIA

ewaste

Generally only for divorce purposes.

sleepymans

ewaste said:

Generally only for divorce purposes.

Is it possible to transfer a pension in payment? “Cash Equivalent Transfer Value”

surely even for divorce purposes it’s the amount in payment which is relevant for the division of “assets” and consideration of future income purposes?? 

ewaste

sleepymans said:

ewaste said:

Generally only for divorce purposes.

Is it possible to transfer a pension in payment? “Cash Equivalent Transfer Value”

surely even for divorce purposes it’s the amount in payment which is relevant for the division of “assets” and consideration of future income purposes?? 

No once a Pension is in payment no CETV can be taken and transferred. The exception being "Trivial Commutation" which is subject to limits and generally will be offered rather than requested. 

For divorce purposes the value of a pension can be offset against other assets. Therefore as I understand it a CETV for divorce purposes and for different circumstances e.g. in payment will vary in the methodology used. 

Is the idea to take a CETV because of the need for immediate cash rather than income? both the Railway and Civil Service Pensions are Index Linked without Cap. 

sleepymans

No, ex husband and I are filling in the forms for a legal “clean break” of assets after our recent divorce.
the form requests CETVs to be provided. Neither of us are making a claim on each others pensions

Silvertabby

Then the 'value' of each pension is listed as a marital asset.  As you don't intend to split either pension (and it can be done, even once in payment) then the values will be offset against other assets.

And, no, it's not just the amounts in payment.  It's the overall value, and the divorce CETV calculation of a DB pension already in payment is just about the most complicated calculation there is.  You will need to give your pension providers plenty of notice of your request.

AskAsk

sleepymans said:

I can understand the need for CETV in most circumstances. I really don’t understand the need for CETVs where the only pensions in existence are state pension and defined benefit (public service)  pensions already in payment. 

The parties, any solicitors and the Court can see with full transparency the value and scope of the pensions.

ive since seen Wikivorce offer a clean break Consent order preparation service for £359 where no pensions are to be shared (£459 where there are pensions sharing involved)

This sort of implies there is a choice about sharing pensions or not sharing pensions. But maybe it means if no pensions exist? I’ll try and find out.

Even if you agree not to share pension, the CETV is still required as disclosure because the courts believe that you should and they should see its value to assess the decision.

I didn't think you need a CETV for the state pension (only occupational pension) as that is asked in the income section of D81 form, where you need to disclose state pension that are in payment together with ones that are expected to come in payment in the future.

I didn't think you need a CETV for the state pension as there are lots of articles that state that the state pension is not taken into account in divorce but I think those articles are wrong.  I will need to check about the state pension CETV as we haven't applied for that.  EEEKK