Five GEMINI PCN in a row at Television Centre

discountdude123

Hi all, 

After reading the newbie thread, even though I have learned a lot, I am still uncertain about what to do next so I'm posting a new thread for some advice.

I have received 5 GEMINI PCNs on 5 concecutive days by post at Television centre in London where my friend was a resident. There was not one windsheld PCN otherwise she probably would have parked elsewhere. I'm attaching one of them for your reference.



My friend was confused about the signage as you can see from the photo below, she thought the Residential lay-by sign meant that these were for residents. I have asked her to speak with her flat's management today to see if they could cancel the tickets but today also happened to be the 14 days after one of the PCNs that were issued, meaning the price goes up tomorrow from £60 to £100.



In the meantime, I wonder what I should do as a the vehicle keeper? Should I appeal to Gemini? If so on what ground should I appeal as the driver did park there without a permit. Also, I see this time Gemini did not assume the keeper was the driver in this notice.

Thank you for your advice in advance. 

Umkomaas

One by one, appeal each PCN using the blue text initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post.  Add to it, the following:

As your Parking Charge Notice does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), you are, in law, unable to hold the registered keeper of the vehicle liable for the parking charge. I suggest therefore that you contact the driver. As there is no legal requirement placed on the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so.

So, a separate appeal for each PCN, following the process as detailed on the reverse side of their notice (above). Make sure you don't tick any box which identifies the keeper as the driver. Let us know how it goes. 

discountdude123

Umkomaas said:

One by one, appeal each PCN using the blue text initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post.  Add to it, the following:

As your Parking Charge Notice does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), you are, in law, unable to hold the registered keeper of the vehicle liable for the parking charge. I suggest therefore that you contact the driver. As there is no legal requirement placed on the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so.

So, a separate appeal for each PCN, following the process as detailed on the reverse side of their notice (above). Make sure you don't tick any box which identifies the keeper as the driver. Let us know how it goes. 

Thank you! I'll keep everyone posted.

discountdude123

Umkomaas said:

One by one, appeal each PCN using the blue text initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post.  Add to it, the following:

As your Parking Charge Notice does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), you are, in law, unable to hold the registered keeper of the vehicle liable for the parking charge. I suggest therefore that you contact the driver. As there is no legal requirement placed on the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so.

So, a separate appeal for each PCN, following the process as detailed on the reverse side of their notice (above). Make sure you don't tick any box which identifies the keeper as the driver. Let us know how it goes. 

Just to double check: is the following okay?

Re PCN number: xxxxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving, and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

As your Parking Charge Notice does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), you are, in law, unable to hold the registered keeper of the vehicle liable for the parking charge. I suggest therefore that you contact the driver. As there is no legal requirement placed on the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so.

Name

Postal address

Le_Kirk

If that is the blue text appeal from the NEWBIE sticky plus the wording as suggested by @Umkomaas, then it is fine.

Coupon-mad

Here's a Gemini thread showing a successful IAS appeal wording used by forum poster  @troublemaker22 a few times (he is a solicitor, known to me):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6500465/gemini-ntk/p1

Use the longer appeal at IAS stage and DO NOT PAY, EVEN IF ANY OF THEM LOSE.

Completely forget about the 14 days (irrelevant because you won't be paying).  Appeal them all within 21 days. State that you were not driving but don't name the driver. 

discountdude123

Hi all,

Thank you all for the advice. I have appealed each PCN and am waiting for their replies. So today my friend who was driving had received this email from the flat owner i.e. the BBC television centre management. Apparently, they think she should pay for the 5 PCN and then wished her a wonderful afternoon. What a bloody nice email to receive 😂. 

My question now is, is it worth going back to them with a formal complaint or just don't bother and prepare to fight Gemini?

Coupon-mad

Just do what @troublemaker22 did.

discountdude123

Dear all,

Thanks to the forum legends Coupon-mad, Le_Kirk and Umkomaas, I'm pleased to report that Gemini has decided to pack up after sending them the exact text below as Umkomaas suggested. They've replied to my 5 individual appeal with the exact same letters below at the bottom even though I was mentally prepared for a lengthy tussle. 

Is there a channel I could donate to you guys? Thank you for all the amazing work you do for the community! I wish I found this forum eariler as I have paid some really unfair private parking tickets in the past which I really shouldn't have

Umkomaas said:

One by one, appeal each PCN using the blue text initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post.  Add to it, the following:

As your Parking Charge Notice does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), you are, in law, unable to hold the registered keeper of the vehicle liable for the parking charge. I suggest therefore that you contact the driver. As there is no legal requirement placed on the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so.

So, a separate appeal for each PCN, following the process as detailed on the reverse side of their notice (above). Make sure you don't tick any box which identifies the keeper as the driver. Let us know how it goes. 

Just to double check: is the following okay?

Re PCN number: xxxxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving, and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

As your Parking Charge Notice does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), you are, in law, unable to hold the registered keeper of the vehicle liable for the parking charge. I suggest therefore that you contact the driver. As there is no legal requirement placed on the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so.

Name

Postal address

Umkomaas

Very well done. 5 PCNs put to bed, following forum advice. Nice one. 👍

They've replied to my 5 individual appeal with the exact same letters below at the bottom even though I was mentally prepared for a lengthy tussle. 

Is there a channel I could donate to you guys? Thank you for all the amazing work you do for the community!

Your feedback and positive comments are more than money could buy.  Well pleased for you. 🥂

Coupon-mad

You might want to tell the TV Centre that you called all 5 out and they were cancelled, so you were disappointed not to get any support.