Creditor unexpectedly threatening court action

london1973

RAS said:

As sourcrates says "but in this case it's not really in contention"

If you'd got an old account that had been thorough a few debt collection companies, it might be worth asking for the CCA.

Make My Community Bank a sensible (a little lower than you can manage) payment offer.

sorry not trying to be difficult, what am i asking for evidence of? i am a little confused here

sourcrates

The LBA has a tick box section where you can, if you wish, ask for evidence of your liability.

This is usually in the form of a copy credit agreement.

We normally advise that this is ticked as a lot of the time it cannot be complied with and the debt may become unenforceable because of this.

Personally I think they will be able to comply, and as you are not disputing the debt, and wish to repay it, my suggestion was not to tick that particular box.

Some creditors when unable to supply evidence, try to bluff through by going immediately to a claim form in the hope it will not be contested.

I assume you simply want an affordable repayment plan with all interest stopped, as the debt has now defaulted, so those were just my thoughts to make it a smooth passage for you.

Obviously you can do as you see fit.

london1973

sourcrates said:

The LBA has a tick box section where you can, if you wish, ask for evidence of your liability.

This is usually in the form of a copy credit agreement.

We normally advise that this is ticked as a lot of the time it cannot be complied with and the debt may become unenforceable because of this.

Personally I think they will be able to comply, and as you are not disputing the debt, and wish to repay it, my suggestion was not to tick that particular box.

Some creditors when unable to supply evidence, try to bluff through by going immediately to a claim form in the hope it will not be contested.

I assume you simply want an affordable repayment plan with all interest stopped, as the debt has now defaulted, so those were just my thoughts to make it a smooth passage for you.

Obviously you can do as you see fit.

thanks very much, extremely helpful as always

PixelPound

Now that the Letter of Clam has been sent (the replacement for LBA when the Civil Procedure Rules were updated several years ago) then now is the time to make an offer of payment. Make sure it is affordable because if you do too high and end up missing payments as a result they may then send you a Claim Form. If you make an offer and it is accepted, then so long as you keep to the agreed payments, a Claim Form won't be issued. Don't worry about trying to pay as much as you can as it would be very rare that they don't accept, since so long as it is reasonable, then if they refuse you dispute it as part of the Claim that you made a reasonable offer. What's a reasonable offer, well that's wholly dependent on your circumstances. If you have other debts and commitments it might be a tenner a month, or maybe you are fortunate to have more spare cash but paying over 3-5 years still affords you some headroom in your finances.

If you are wanting to pay, then now is the time as you can get an affordable and agreeable terms. If you leave it until a claim form is issued then you are limited by the fact that there is a six month limit - if you need to repay over a longer period then many will only do it via the Admission route which is still a CCJ.

TBH I wouldn't look at the evidence request either, unless you think there is some doubt over the debt. Sometimes people suggest doing this because their is a chance they don't have a copy of the agreement to provide and so the debt becomes unenforceable until such time as they locate and provide the proof. Sometimes people simply suggest doing it as a delaying tactic. If, unlike the other creditors, they've escalated it to this stage already then possibly they'll want to proceed to a Claim Form and on to a CCJ to be able to get their fees included. So depends how much you want to push it.

london1973

nic_c said:

Now that the Letter of Clam has been sent (the replacement for LBA when the Civil Procedure Rules were updated several years ago) then now is the time to make an offer of payment. Make sure it is affordable because if you do too high and end up missing payments as a result they may then send you a Claim Form. If you make an offer and it is accepted, then so long as you keep to the agreed payments, a Claim Form won't be issued. Don't worry about trying to pay as much as you can as it would be very rare that they don't accept, since so long as it is reasonable, then if they refuse you dispute it as part of the Claim that you made a reasonable offer. What's a reasonable offer, well that's wholly dependent on your circumstances. If you have other debts and commitments it might be a tenner a month, or maybe you are fortunate to have more spare cash but paying over 3-5 years still affords you some headroom in your finances.

If you are wanting to pay, then now is the time as you can get an affordable and agreeable terms. If you leave it until a claim form is issued then you are limited by the fact that there is a six month limit - if you need to repay over a longer period then many will only do it via the Admission route which is still a CCJ.

TBH I wouldn't look at the evidence request either, unless you think there is some doubt over the debt. Sometimes people suggest doing this because their is a chance they don't have a copy of the agreement to provide and so the debt becomes unenforceable until such time as they locate and provide the proof. Sometimes people simply suggest doing it as a delaying tactic. If, unlike the other creditors, they've escalated it to this stage already then possibly they'll want to proceed to a Claim Form and on to a CCJ to be able to get their fees included. So depends how much you want to push it.

Thanks, this is really helpful

london1973

sourcrates said:

The LBA has a tick box section where you can, if you wish, ask for evidence of your liability.

This is usually in the form of a copy credit agreement.

We normally advise that this is ticked as a lot of the time it cannot be complied with and the debt may become unenforceable because of this.

Personally I think they will be able to comply, and as you are not disputing the debt, and wish to repay it, my suggestion was not to tick that particular box.

Some creditors when unable to supply evidence, try to bluff through by going immediately to a claim form in the hope it will not be contested.

I assume you simply want an affordable repayment plan with all interest stopped, as the debt has now defaulted, so those were just my thoughts to make it a smooth passage for you.

Obviously you can do as you see fit.

Purely because i am interested; why wouldn’t a creditor be able to supply this evidence, it seems very unlikely that the lender doesn’t have a copy of its own credit agreement? Or can this happen?

RAS

If you are talking about an account open in recent years, with all the ID requirements, most original providers should have the original paperwork. But in a few years time, with changes in ownership, systems and a debt sold on several times, may be not. 

When I was first on MSE, there were several card and credit providers who were incredibly lax and it was uncommon for some to be able to the credit agreement when it was demanded. 

sourcrates

london1973 said:

Purely because i am interested; why wouldn’t a creditor be able to supply this evidence, it seems very unlikely that the lender doesn’t have a copy of its own credit agreement? Or can this happen?

Creditors keep paperwork for on average 6 years, either stored digitally or filed.

When a debt is sold, the paperwork always stays with the OC, it never gets passed on unless you write and request it.

Credit unions are a little more careful in that respect, but mainstream creditors can be very lax on occasion.

ManyWays

Setting up a payment arrangement now to this debt is important.

My Community Bank has a surprising number of affordability complaints won against them at the Ombudsman for an ethical lender. Here is one picked at random: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4613090.pdf

Have a look at the Debt Camel website and use the template there to make a complaint against them. And possibly some of your other debts too.

Sly72

sourcrates said:

london1973 said:

Purely because i am interested; why wouldn’t a creditor be able to supply this evidence, it seems very unlikely that the lender doesn’t have a copy of its own credit agreement? Or can this happen?

Creditors keep paperwork for on average 6 years, either stored digitally or filed.

When a debt is sold, the paperwork always stays with the OC, it never gets passed on unless you write and request it.

Credit unions are a little more careful in that respect, but mainstream creditors can be very lax on occasion.

"Creditors keep paperwork for on average 6 years, either stored digitally or filed" is that from date of application?