PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone

Nijinsky

I drive a Ford Diesel and went into the Birmingham Clean Air Zone on 23/05/2024. The sign said charges apply and to pay online, but there was no further information on the sign to say where to pay online. No website was displayed on the sign, so I awaited a letter from Birmingham Council, which arrived on 13/06/2024.

To my shock, instead of receiving information on how to pay, I have received a PCN, stating as I didn't pay within the 6 day deadline, I now have to pay £120 (which will get reduced to £60 if I pay within 14 days).

There was no information on the sign saying I had to pay within 6 days and there was no website displayed on the sign, so I'm now wondering what to do next.

I've looked online and see lots of people are ignoring and refusing to pay. However, this isn't a private parking company, it's Birmingham Council, so ignoring it will probably be a risk? Clean Air Zone fines 'written off' with drivers 'refusing to pay' - Birmingham Live (birminghammail.co.uk)

Can I claim the signage doesn't set out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner, as no website or deadline of payment is displayed to create a legally binding contract?

I can't find any templates from anyone who has successfully appealed against this, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Ross

Keep_pedalling

It takes 30 seconds to find how to pay on Google, and none of the arguments you have put forward here are going to get you off. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away is not a great idea as you are likely to end up with a CCJ against you. 

You could go over the the FTLA forum to see if you might actually have a valid reason to appeal, if you do then make the appeal if not pay up quickly to lose no more than £60. 

https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=todayspost

Nijinsky

Do you mind telling me what the FTLA forum is? Do you have a link?

With parking charges, it's up to the private parking company to prove you're the driver, so surely in this instance, it's up to Birmingham Council to tell me how to pay? They can't just slap a £60 fine on me without telling me there's a 6 day deadline on their signage. I feel completely conned and I'm going to fight this.

Coupon-mad

That is a link.

Nijinsky

Apologies, I missed it at the bottom of the post.

Keep_pedalling

Nijinsky said:

Do you mind telling me what the FTLA forum is? Do you have a link?

With parking charges, it's up to the private parking company to prove you're the driver, so surely in this instance, it's up to Birmingham Council to tell me how to pay? They can't just slap a £60 fine on me without telling me there's a 6 day deadline on their signage. I feel completely conned and I'm going to fight this.

The rules are very different for things like ULEZ zones and automatic tolls such as the Dartford crossing, responsibility falls on the registered keeper. Providing the website address on a road sign is not practical as you can hardly write it down while driving. 

Nijinsky

Keep_pedalling said:

Nijinsky said:

Do you mind telling me what the FTLA forum is? Do you have a link?

With parking charges, it's up to the private parking company to prove you're the driver, so surely in this instance, it's up to Birmingham Council to tell me how to pay? They can't just slap a £60 fine on me without telling me there's a 6 day deadline on their signage. I feel completely conned and I'm going to fight this.

The rules are very different for things like ULEZ zones and automatic tolls such as the Dartford crossing, responsibility falls on the registered keeper. Providing the website address on a road sign is not practical as you can hardly write it down while driving. 

In that case, asking to pay online isn't practical, as you can hardly hold a laptop or phone while driving. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway, I have posted on the FTLA forum. Thanks for posting the link.

Keep_pedalling

Nijinsky said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Nijinsky said:

Do you mind telling me what the FTLA forum is? Do you have a link?

With parking charges, it's up to the private parking company to prove you're the driver, so surely in this instance, it's up to Birmingham Council to tell me how to pay? They can't just slap a £60 fine on me without telling me there's a 6 day deadline on their signage. I feel completely conned and I'm going to fight this.

The rules are very different for things like ULEZ zones and automatic tolls such as the Dartford crossing, responsibility falls on the registered keeper. Providing the website address on a road sign is not practical as you can hardly write it down while driving. 

In that case, asking to pay online isn't practical, as you can hardly hold a laptop or phone while driving. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway, I have posted on the FTLA forum. Thanks for posting the link.

You have 6 days in which to pay so totally practical. You can also pay over the phone.

Nijinsky

Keep_pedalling said:

Nijinsky said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Nijinsky said:

Do you mind telling me what the FTLA forum is? Do you have a link?

With parking charges, it's up to the private parking company to prove you're the driver, so surely in this instance, it's up to Birmingham Council to tell me how to pay? They can't just slap a £60 fine on me without telling me there's a 6 day deadline on their signage. I feel completely conned and I'm going to fight this.

The rules are very different for things like ULEZ zones and automatic tolls such as the Dartford crossing, responsibility falls on the registered keeper. Providing the website address on a road sign is not practical as you can hardly write it down while driving. 

In that case, asking to pay online isn't practical, as you can hardly hold a laptop or phone while driving. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway, I have posted on the FTLA forum. Thanks for posting the link.

You have 6 days in which to pay so totally practical. You can also pay over the phone.

How was I supposed to know I had 6 days to pay? It didn't tell me that on the signage. How was I supposed to know I could pay over the phone? It only said I could pay online on the signage. There was no contact number displayed on the signage.

The signage gives no information how to pay at all, so it's not totally practical. Do you work for Birmingham Council?

gh2410

How have you got on with it? . I agree there is nowhere telling you you have to pay by the end of the 6th day. 

I logged on to pay and saw that I was 8 hours too late, but I acted in honour and paid the £8. Now I’ve got a PCN. I explained that on the week leading up to payment my closest brother died suddenly therefore my thoughts were with my immediate family, yet Birmingham Council have said that’s not an excuse. Why did they accept the payment and then issue a PCN. Totally out of order. 

Nijinsky

gh2410 said:

How have you got on with it? . I agree there is nowhere telling you you have to pay by the end of the 6th day. 

I logged on to pay and saw that I was 8 hours too late, but I acted in honour and paid the £8. Now I’ve got a PCN. I explained that on the week leading up to payment my closest brother died suddenly therefore my thoughts were with my immediate family, yet Birmingham Council have said that’s not an excuse. Why did they accept the payment and then issue a PCN. Totally out of order. 

I have just submitted an appeal to the "independent" tribunal, not that I expect much as the system is so corrupt against us. It's an absolute disgrace what has happened to you and the councils clearly show they don't care about us ordinary people. The agenda is to take whatever they can from us to be able to control and dominate every aspect of our lives. I hope you and your family are alright, I offer my condolences.

Here is my appeal, I will keep you updated:

"I received a PCN on 11/06/2024 for driving through Birmingham's clean air zone. I appealed to Birmingham Council explaining although they've showed photos of my car, their signage doesn't display their terms in a sufficiently clear manner. All their signage says is "Clean air zone. Charges apply. Pay online". There was no information on the signage saying where I go to pay online, there was no website displayed on the signage and there is also no information stating I had to pay the charge within a 6 day deadline.

I explained to Birmingham Council I had intended to pay the £8 charge when I got home, but I had no internet access at the time. The first I knew about a 6 day payment deadline was when I received the PCN. Reluctantly, I chose to pay the £60 fine within the 2 week "discount" period, before Birmingham Council increased the fine again further to their full £120. Birmingham Council dismissed my appeal, showing no consideration to the fact I had no internet access, offering no alternative option to pay the charge. Surely, Birmingham Council can't just slap a £60 fine on me without telling me there's a 6 day deadline on their signage?

Birmingham Council have said it's up to the motorist to find out the information with their terms. I totally disagree, Birmingham Council are imposing their Clean Air Charge, so it should be up to Birmingham Council to display their terms clearly on their signage to inform the motorists. I live near Cardiff and I've never driven through a Clean Air Zone before. I'm not from the Birmingham area, this Clean Air Zone is a new thing to me and it should be up to Birmingham Council to provide all the required information, as motorists outside the Birmingham area will be unfamiliar with their Clean Air Zone terms.

Birmingham Council should also be offering alternative ways to pay the charge, as not everyone has internet access to get online. If the signage said I had a 6 day deadline to pay, I would have visited a friend or family member to get online to pay the charge, but I did not know I had to pay within 6 days. 

I thought councils were supposed to be helpful to the public and care for their community, but Birmingham Council have offered me no help at all. Currently, I feel completely conned, mislead and deceived. I appealed offering to pay the initial £8 charge, but I've felt I had to pay £60 because I read so many negative comments on Birmingham Council not responding to appeals.

I question if this Clean Air Charge zone actually does improve the quality of air. I request some conclusive, peer reviewed, scientific evidence from Birmingham Council, proving the air within their Clean Air Zone is less polluted than the air outside their Clean Air Zone.

Finally and most importantly, I have read just before Birmingham Council went bankrupt, they spent 2.1 million on automobiles which do not even comply with their own Clean Air Zone emission standards (see link): https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12779101/Bankrupt-Birmingham-Council-wasted-2-1M-vehicles-dont-comply-clean-air-zone-despite-110-000-drivers-fined-thousands-draconian-green-scheme.html

I wonder if Birmingham Council are issuing a charge to their own automobiles for failing to comply with their own Clean Air Zone emission standards? I highly doubt it and clearly, this shows Birmingham Council's Clean Air Zone isn't about improving their environment at all. The agenda is clearly all about raking in as much extra money as they can to recover from their bankruptcy, deceiving us motorists with their unclear and insufficient information on their signage. Birmingham Council are charging motorists for an offence they themselves are committing with their 2.1 million pounds purchase of automobiles which don't comply with their own Clean Air Zone emission standards. Birmingham Council's hypocrisy is astonishing. It is theft, it is dishonest and Birmingham Council should not be allowed to get away with it.

For these reasons, I request a full refund and I believe every motorist appealing in future should be given a full refund. Birmingham Council should not be allowed to charge anyone. They are not setting an example, they have purchased 146 automobiles which are breaking their own Clean Air Zone emission standards. They clearly don't really care about their environment, their Clean Air Zone has been set up solely as a cash cow and they shouldn't be allowed to continue."