Tradesman not supplying invoice / receipt with my name on

OrlandoBoom

Hi,
I have a tradesman doing work for me. He has asked me to pay his daily rate, which he has invoiced me for (in my name), but has asked me to pay his wholesale supplier direct for the hardware / parts / supplies. The tradesman sent me the invoice from the wholesaler, which had the tradesman's name on it. I queried this and said I needed it to be in my name. Was told the receipt would be. I have now received the receipt and it's still only the tradesman's name on it, not mine. I need mine on it for business purposes

I rang the tradesman, he said to contact the wholesaler to sort it out. I rang the wholesaler, and he said he could not change it because the hardware / parts / supplies were ordered on the tradesman's business account, and that I had just paid for it. Is this illegal ? It sounds to me like the tradesman is doing this for tax evasion purposes, and if so, I need to know because I need an invoice / receipt in my name to be able to use it for my own business accounts. I need to be able to have something to hold against them because neither are willing to supply an invoice or receipt with my name and address on it. TIA

marlot

Sounds like your tradesman is trying stay below the VAT threshold?

OrlandoBoom

marlot said:

Sounds like your tradesman is trying stay below the VAT threshold?

Is he allowed to conduct business this way though ? I personally think it is more to do with him recently splitting with his wife and trying to conceal his earnings to avoid paying maintenance for his children........however, that's not my concern, my concern is I don't have a valid invoice or receipt in my name to be able to use against my own business receipts as outgoings. He seems to think what he is doing is legitimate, but I have my doubts, so if I can find out if it is illegal, and point it out to him, then he will likely produce said invoice / receipt in my name. If he then carries on doing what he's doing, then that's upto him

Risteard

OrlandoBoom said:

marlot said:

Sounds like your tradesman is trying stay below the VAT threshold?

Is he allowed to conduct business this way though ? I personally think it is more to do with him recently splitting with his wife and trying to conceal his earnings to avoid paying maintenance for his children........however, that's not my concern, my concern is I don't have a valid invoice or receipt in my name to be able to use against my own business receipts as outgoings. He seems to think what he is doing is legitimate, but I have my doubts, so if I can find out if it is illegal, and point it out to him, then he will likely produce said invoice / receipt in my name. If he then carries on doing what he's doing, then that's upto him

What exactly do you perceive as being illegal and why?

OrlandoBoom

Risteard said:

OrlandoBoom said:

marlot said:

Sounds like your tradesman is trying stay below the VAT threshold?

Is he allowed to conduct business this way though ? I personally think it is more to do with him recently splitting with his wife and trying to conceal his earnings to avoid paying maintenance for his children........however, that's not my concern, my concern is I don't have a valid invoice or receipt in my name to be able to use against my own business receipts as outgoings. He seems to think what he is doing is legitimate, but I have my doubts, so if I can find out if it is illegal, and point it out to him, then he will likely produce said invoice / receipt in my name. If he then carries on doing what he's doing, then that's upto him

What exactly do you perceive as being illegal and why?

The fact that he is getting me to pay his business account for him, then not supplying me with a valid invoice or receipt for it. What I am trying to find out is if getting someone to else to pay a business account is seen as tax evasion, in that he is ordering the parts on his business account with the wholesaler, but then not putting them through his books and getting the customer to pay for them on his account. Surely he should be paying the wholesaler for them and then invoicing me for them. Isn't that tax evasion by not putting them through his own books but using his business account to obtain them ? I don't know, which is why I am asking the question. I need to be able to goto him and have something to force his hand into giving me an invoice or a receipt

Sarahspangles

To evade tax, he’d want your cash, and not the paperwork (order/receipt), as that is the paper trail HMRC can use in evidence if he’s trying to avoid registering for VAT.

It’s more likely he’s trying to avoid the cash flow problem of buying materials upfront that he can’t immediately invoice you for.

Where are the materials? You ideally need something in writing from him to say you have title, in case he is in financial difficulty.

Doozergirl

OrlandoBoom said:

Risteard said:

OrlandoBoom said:

marlot said:

Sounds like your tradesman is trying stay below the VAT threshold?

Is he allowed to conduct business this way though ? I personally think it is more to do with him recently splitting with his wife and trying to conceal his earnings to avoid paying maintenance for his children........however, that's not my concern, my concern is I don't have a valid invoice or receipt in my name to be able to use against my own business receipts as outgoings. He seems to think what he is doing is legitimate, but I have my doubts, so if I can find out if it is illegal, and point it out to him, then he will likely produce said invoice / receipt in my name. If he then carries on doing what he's doing, then that's upto him

What exactly do you perceive as being illegal and why?

The fact that he is getting me to pay his business account for him, then not supplying me with a valid invoice or receipt for it. What I am trying to find out is if getting someone to else to pay a business account is seen as tax evasion, in that he is ordering the parts on his business account with the wholesaler, but then not putting them through his books and getting the customer to pay for them on his account. Surely he should be paying the wholesaler for them and then invoicing me for them. Isn't that tax evasion by not putting them through his own books but using his business account to obtain them ? I don't know, which is why I am asking the question. I need to be able to goto him and have something to force his hand into giving me an invoice or a receipt

I'd say no.  

It might be if he was submitting the paperwork as part of his accounts and saying he had personally paid it, but the receipt won't show that it was paid in cash (which he would have to declare as coming in somewhere) or that was paid with a card registered to him.  

The account allows him (you) to take advantage of discounts. Yes, it could be manipulated but this is pretty common practice as you wouldn't get a trade discount for being a regular customer.  

Sometimes charlatans do things that are clearly illegal or unlawful and customers are often complicit in some way, but this isn't one of those situations. 

Grumpy_chap

OrlandoBoom said:

Hi,
I have a tradesman doing work for me. He has asked me to pay his daily rate, which he has invoiced me for (in my name), but has asked me to pay his wholesale supplier direct for the hardware / parts / supplies. The tradesman sent me the invoice from the wholesaler, which had the tradesman's name on it. I queried this and said I needed it to be in my name. Was told the receipt would be. I have now received the receipt and it's still only the tradesman's name on it, not mine. I need mine on it for business purposes

I rang the tradesman, he said to contact the wholesaler to sort it out. I rang the wholesaler, and he said he could not change it because the hardware / parts / supplies were ordered on the tradesman's business account, and that I had just paid for it. Is this illegal ? It sounds to me like the tradesman is doing this for tax evasion purposes, and if so, I need to know because I need an invoice / receipt in my name to be able to use it for my own business accounts. I need to be able to have something to hold against them because neither are willing to supply an invoice or receipt with my name and address on it. TIA

It is quite likely you have benefitted from some discount terms that are on the trader's account so the prices are lower than general public.  If the invoice is made out to you, then the trade terms would not apply.
Is the supplier a company such a Howdens?

OrlandoBoom

Grumpy_chap said:

OrlandoBoom said:

Hi,
I have a tradesman doing work for me. He has asked me to pay his daily rate, which he has invoiced me for (in my name), but has asked me to pay his wholesale supplier direct for the hardware / parts / supplies. The tradesman sent me the invoice from the wholesaler, which had the tradesman's name on it. I queried this and said I needed it to be in my name. Was told the receipt would be. I have now received the receipt and it's still only the tradesman's name on it, not mine. I need mine on it for business purposes

I rang the tradesman, he said to contact the wholesaler to sort it out. I rang the wholesaler, and he said he could not change it because the hardware / parts / supplies were ordered on the tradesman's business account, and that I had just paid for it. Is this illegal ? It sounds to me like the tradesman is doing this for tax evasion purposes, and if so, I need to know because I need an invoice / receipt in my name to be able to use it for my own business accounts. I need to be able to have something to hold against them because neither are willing to supply an invoice or receipt with my name and address on it. TIA

It is quite likely you have benefitted from some discount terms that are on the trader's account so the prices are lower than general public.  If the invoice is made out to you, then the trade terms would not apply.
Is the supplier a company such a Howdens?

No, it's a wholesale supplier to the electric trade. How would I benefit though ? Surely I can not use the invoice or receipt that is in the tradesman's name and not in my name against my own tax accounts ? I was under the impression that you have to have an invoice / receipt in your own name / company name in order to be able to use it. How would my accountant be able to use an invoice / receipt that does not have my name on it ? This is where I'm confused

Sarahspangles

OrlandoBoom said:

No, it's a wholesale supplier to the electric trade. How would I benefit though ? Surely I can not use the invoice or receipt that is in the tradesman's name and not in my name against my own tax accounts ? I was under the impression that you have to have an invoice / receipt in your own name / company name in order to be able to use it. How would my accountant be able to use an invoice / receipt that does not have my name on it ? This is where I'm confused

What tax are you trying to offset? VAT?

OrlandoBoom

Doozergirl said:

OrlandoBoom said:

Risteard said:

OrlandoBoom said:

marlot said:

Sounds like your tradesman is trying stay below the VAT threshold?

Is he allowed to conduct business this way though ? I personally think it is more to do with him recently splitting with his wife and trying to conceal his earnings to avoid paying maintenance for his children........however, that's not my concern, my concern is I don't have a valid invoice or receipt in my name to be able to use against my own business receipts as outgoings. He seems to think what he is doing is legitimate, but I have my doubts, so if I can find out if it is illegal, and point it out to him, then he will likely produce said invoice / receipt in my name. If he then carries on doing what he's doing, then that's upto him

What exactly do you perceive as being illegal and why?

The fact that he is getting me to pay his business account for him, then not supplying me with a valid invoice or receipt for it. What I am trying to find out is if getting someone to else to pay a business account is seen as tax evasion, in that he is ordering the parts on his business account with the wholesaler, but then not putting them through his books and getting the customer to pay for them on his account. Surely he should be paying the wholesaler for them and then invoicing me for them. Isn't that tax evasion by not putting them through his own books but using his business account to obtain them ? I don't know, which is why I am asking the question. I need to be able to goto him and have something to force his hand into giving me an invoice or a receipt

I'd say no.  

It might be if he was submitting the paperwork as part of his accounts and saying he had personally paid it, but the receipt won't show that it was paid in cash (which he would have to declare as coming in somewhere) or that was paid with a card registered to him.  

The account allows him (you) to take advantage of discounts. Yes, it could be manipulated but this is pretty common practice as you wouldn't get a trade discount for being a regular customer.  

Sometimes charlatans do things that are clearly illegal or unlawful and customers are often complicit in some way, but this isn't one of those situations. 

I'm not getting hoe the benefit of saving a couple of quid on the wholesale cost is offset by the hundreds that I can't claim against my own business for tax purposes though. Are you saying that the invoice / receipt that he has presented me with, that does not have my name anywhere on it at all, only his, can be used by my accountant against my tax accounts ? Is this acceptable ? I was under the impression that an invoice / receipt had to have your own (or companies) name on them and not someone else's ? This is where I am confused