British Gas want me to settle final bill based on estimated reading??

BarelySentientAI

itm2 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

itm2 said:

This is from the Ofgem website (https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/what-do-if-you-get-back-bill):

These rules set out when a supplier can charge you for any shortfalls in payment for energy you’ve used.

You cannot be charged for energy used more than 12 months ago if:

• you have not had an accurate bill for it before, even though you asked for one
• you have not been informed about any charges due via a statement of account before
• your Direct Debit amount was previously set too low to cover any charges due

Suppliers must make these rules clear in their contract terms and conditions.

You have been informed about charges due.  This is not a "bill shock" which is what the back billing rules are designed to mitigate.

BG didn't bill me anything for gas usage from December 14th 2022 to the end of my contract on June 14th 2023. I was paying a monthly fixed direct debit the whole time. I then heard nothing until January 2024, when they sent me a £700 bill for gas usage (based on a wildly inaccurate estimate). If that isn't bill shock then I'm really not sure what "bill shock" means.
What am I missing here?

That's a very different story from your first post, which says "from December 2022 to June 2023, as they were either failing to bill me at all for energy usage, or billing me based on estimated readings for gas" - clearly suggesting that you had been billed.  Now you are saying that you never had any bills or statements for gas at all from December 2022 until January 2024?  If that's true, then you might get back billing applied for the first of those months, but that would still leave everything from January 2023 to pay - but see the next point.

Check the final bullet.  Was your direct debit enough to cover what the final bill would be?  The one based on your 'accurate' numbers?  And once Dec 2022 usage is removed?

If so - still no back billing, because your Direct debit amount was not set too low to cover any charges due.

You've been told several times, give up on the back billing line of argument because it really doesn't apply to you.  Concentrate on getting the correct closing reading to be used.

An example of bill shock would be paying a £50 direct debit for two years based on estimated readings, then being told that because of actual readings you've used £5000 of gas so owe £3800.

You are not complaining about bill shock.  You are complaining about an incorrect closing reading.  Remember, the Ombudsman doesn't investigate, they simply consider the evidence and allegations presented by each side.  If you go to them arguing irrelevantly about back billing, they will probably side with BG, so don't include that in any complaint.

itm2

I should add that in May 2023 I raised a complaint with Ofgem because I had been hounding BG for months to tell me how much I owed them for gas as they had been unable to send me a statement since December 2022, despite the fact that I have smart meters and was also uploading meter readings to their website which were being ignored (and seemingly deleted). In the end I gave up and moved to Octopus, having still not been billed. Ofgem upheld my complaint, and I received an apology from BG (but still no gas bill).

itm2

BarelySentientAI said:

itm2 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

itm2 said:

This is from the Ofgem website (https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/what-do-if-you-get-back-bill):

These rules set out when a supplier can charge you for any shortfalls in payment for energy you’ve used.

You cannot be charged for energy used more than 12 months ago if:

• you have not had an accurate bill for it before, even though you asked for one
• you have not been informed about any charges due via a statement of account before
• your Direct Debit amount was previously set too low to cover any charges due

Suppliers must make these rules clear in their contract terms and conditions.

You have been informed about charges due.  This is not a "bill shock" which is what the back billing rules are designed to mitigate.

BG didn't bill me anything for gas usage from December 14th 2022 to the end of my contract on June 14th 2023. I was paying a monthly fixed direct debit the whole time. I then heard nothing until January 2024, when they sent me a £700 bill for gas usage (based on a wildly inaccurate estimate). If that isn't bill shock then I'm really not sure what "bill shock" means.
What am I missing here?

That's a very different story from your first post, which says "from December 2022 to June 2023, as they were either failing to bill me at all for energy usage, or billing me based on estimated readings for gas" - clearly suggesting that you had been billed.  Now you are saying that you never had any bills or statements for gas at all from December 2022 until January 2024?  If that's true, then you might get back billing applied for the first of those months, but that would still leave everything from January 2023 to pay - but see the next point.

Check the final bullet.  Was your direct debit enough to cover what the final bill would be?  The one based on your 'accurate' numbers?  And once Dec 2022 usage is removed?

If so - still no back billing, because your Direct debit amount was not set too low to cover any charges due.

You've been told several times, give up on the back billing line of argument because it really doesn't apply to you.  Concentrate on getting the correct closing reading to be used.

An example of bill shock would be paying a £50 direct debit for two years based on estimated readings, then being told that because of actual readings you've used £5000 of gas so owe £3800.

You are not complaining about bill shock.  You are complaining about an incorrect closing reading.  Remember, the Ombudsman doesn't investigate, they simply consider the evidence and allegations presented by each side.  If you go to them arguing irrelevantly about back billing, they will probably side with BG, so don't include that in any complaint.

To clarify (I've just checked the only two bills that I received from BG in 2023) - they included the daily standing charge for gas but no usage charges. The estimated gas bills were received in the period from August to December 2022.

Re. the third bullet point of Ofgem's back-billing rules: I have no idea whether my direct debit amount was set at the correct level - this was exactly why I was hounding them to send me an accurate statement, based on the meter readings that I had been uploading. I was very concerned that I would be hit with a large bill that I was not expecting - which is, of course, what eventually happened.

Regarding the first two bullet points - it is certainly true that I had not received an accurate bill for it (and still haven't), and I had not received a statement of account for gas usage - despite repeatedly requesting one for several months until I finally gave up in June 2023.

If the back-billing rules still don't apply to me (and TBH I still don't understand why not - sorry!), what would be the best way to proceed with Ofgem (as BG are clearly incapable of sending me an accurate bill)? BG have had my closing meter readings since last June (Octopus confirmed that) - and I forwarded them an email from Octopus last week which contained the actual meter readings that I supplied at the time. But BG are repeatedly asking me to send two current meter readings, 7 days apart, so that they can estimate my correct closing bill. 

BarelySentientAI

Surely you do know whether your DD was enough.  You have the readings and you have the prices.  How much do you think the bill should have been (I'm guessing less than £700), and was your DD enough to cover it?

It sounds like you might not have to pay December 2022 if your evidence about bills is correct - but do you know how much that should be?  The rest is within 12 months of the Jan 24 bill - if this bill was being revised upwards then it might apply to more depending on when they revise, but you want it adjusting down. 

Your complaint is simple, and is to the Ombudsman not to ofgem.  BG are not using and industry aged closing reading for your bill.  You have the evidence from octopus that says what the reading should be and what it's date was.

itm2

The gas is priced in kwH but the meter is based on notional "gas units", but by extrapolating/pro-rating based on the calculation on BG's bill (?) I would estimate that the amount due for the period from mid-December 2022 to mid-June 2023 is about £350 (so roughly half BG's estimate). I'd estimate the monthly electricity charges to be about £180 per month (based on pro-rating the bills from June to December). So the DD should have been around £240. My DD was set at £182. That's obviously a fag packet calculation as I'm not sure if simple pro-rating provides a good enough approximation, plus I haven't accounted for pricing variations during the period in question. That's BG's  job, right?

So what you're saying is that the fact that they sent me a bill on January 9th this year - albeit wildly inaccurate -  means that back-billing rules do not apply from that date forward? So theoretically they should only be billing me for the period from 9/1/23 to the end of my contract on 13/6/23? I'm guessing that there is no way that they could accurately calculate that, since they don't have a meter reading for 9/1/23??

Out of curiosity I just logged into my BG online account (I wasn't aware that it was still active). Amazingly, the first page that was displayed showed the correct gas meter reading for June 13th last year - "Received on 13th June 2023"!?! And my case handler continues to insist that I send them two current meter readings, 7 days apart, to enable them to estimate my bill. Since they clearly have the actual reading for 13/6/23, and I also gave them a reading over the phone 2 weeks before that, I have no idea what they are up to.

I guess the Ombudsman will ask me what I want from BG. Other than an accurate bill (which I guess is impossible, for the reasons outlined above), what can I reasonably expect from BG after this seemingly never-ending saga?

FreeBear

Had BG sent you a final bill within six weeks of the switch ?

If not, they are in breach of OFGEM's guidance, and should have paid you statutory compensation of £30 within 10 working days. Failure to pay compensation within the allotted time incurs a second statutory payment of £30.

If the final bill had not been issued in the required time frame along with the mandated compensation, then your OE complaint should read something along the lines of:

British Gas have failed to issue a final bill in line with OFGEM requirements.

The final statement issued on <date> fails to use the correct opening/closing readings that have been verified by the third party and accepted by Octopus as the new supplier.

Resolution required: British Gas to issue a final bill using the correct closing readings of <electricity> and <gas>. Pay statutory compensation for failing to provide a final bill within the mandated six weeks, and an additional statutory payment for further breaches of Guaranteed Standards as set by OFGEM.

Include evidence of opening readings used by Octopus, and the "final bill" from BG (highlighting the date of issue).

itm2

FreeBear said:

Had BG sent you a final bill within six weeks of the switch ?

Well, sort of....BG sent me a "final statement"  3 weeks after the end of the contract, but it didn't contain any charges for gas usage - only the daily standing charge. So it wasn't complete or accurate. So at that stage they hadn't billed me for any gas usage for 6 months.

FreeBear

itm2 said:

FreeBear said:

Had BG sent you a final bill within six weeks of the switch ?

Well, sort of....BG sent me a "final statement"  3 weeks after the end of the contract, but it didn't contain any charges for gas usage - only the daily standing charge. So it wasn't complete or accurate. So at that stage they hadn't billed me for any gas usage for 6 months.

OK, so as long as the electricity readings are correct, you can drop the bit about statutory compensation and just concentrate on gas readings. eg.

British Gas have failed to provide an accurate final bill using independently verified closing readings of <number> within six weeks of switching to Octopus.

Resolution required: British Gas to issue a final (gas) bill using the above readings and pay statutory compensation if the Ombudsman determines a breach of OFGEMS Guaranteed Standards has occurred.

itm2

FreeBear said:

itm2 said:

FreeBear said:

Had BG sent you a final bill within six weeks of the switch ?

Well, sort of....BG sent me a "final statement"  3 weeks after the end of the contract, but it didn't contain any charges for gas usage - only the daily standing charge. So it wasn't complete or accurate. So at that stage they hadn't billed me for any gas usage for 6 months.

OK, so as long as the electricity readings are correct, you can drop the bit about statutory compensation and just concentrate on gas readings. eg.

British Gas have failed to provide an accurate final bill using independently verified closing readings of <number> within six weeks of switching to Octopus.

Resolution required: British Gas to issue a final (gas) bill using the above readings and pay statutory compensation if the Ombudsman determines a breach of OFGEMS Guaranteed Standards has occurred.

Can I explicitly request that they exclude charges for gas usage prior to January 9th 2023, as this would fall outside the 12 month window?

FreeBear

itm2 said:

FreeBear said:

itm2 said:

FreeBear said:

Had BG sent you a final bill within six weeks of the switch ?

Well, sort of....BG sent me a "final statement"  3 weeks after the end of the contract, but it didn't contain any charges for gas usage - only the daily standing charge. So it wasn't complete or accurate. So at that stage they hadn't billed me for any gas usage for 6 months.

OK, so as long as the electricity readings are correct, you can drop the bit about statutory compensation and just concentrate on gas readings. eg.

British Gas have failed to provide an accurate final bill using independently verified closing readings of <number> within six weeks of switching to Octopus.

Resolution required: British Gas to issue a final (gas) bill using the above readings and pay statutory compensation if the Ombudsman determines a breach of OFGEMS Guaranteed Standards has occurred.

Can I explicitly request that they exclude charges for gas usage prior to January 9th 2023, as this would fall outside the 12 month window?

To add.

And if the Ombudsman determine that gas usage prior to January 2023 falls with the back billing rules, British Gas is to adjust the final bill accordingly.

The EO may decide that as BG have already issued a final bill with 6 weeks of leaving, back billing rules do not apply. So leave them to decide on that point.