AVC issues and advice

PostMetaller

I have 2 AVC policies that were taken out in the late 90s linked to my company scheme. They were defined contribution schemes.

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.  I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy. This process started a month ago and still has not been sorted. It feels though I am back in the time of pen, quill and carrier pigeon.

Frustratingly, I have another pension policy taken out a little later, which I can see online and can make switches electronically with Aviva.

My first question is - Has anyone else had similar issues with managing their legacy AVC products? Especially the issue with needing scheme trustee agreement for fund switches within defined contribution holdings?

Secondly - I am not going through this rigmarole every time I want to make a fund switch, so I am going to look to transfer the two policies to another provider.  Can anyone recommend a pension provider that they have used, where transferring in, online access and availability of various funds to manage online has gone well?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

dunstonh

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.

That is normal where the administrators are only using the provider to carry out their instructions.   

 I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy.

The contract won't allow them to.  They didn't chose for it to be like that.  The trustees in conjunction with the administrators did.

Frustratingly, I have another pension policy taken out a little later, which I can see online and can make switches electronically with Aviva.

That will be a policy where Aviva is the administrator.

Has anyone else had similar issues with managing their legacy AVC products?
Especially the issue with needing scheme trustee agreement for fund switches within defined contribution holdings?

yes.. Although normally you are told to deal with the administrator. and not the trustees.

Secondly - I am not going through this rigmarole every time I want to make a fund switch, so I am going to look to transfer the two policies to another provider.  Can anyone recommend a pension provider that they have used, where transferring in, online access and availability of various funds to manage online has gone well?

Any of them, including your current provider.   Remember that the issue is not the provider of the plan but the type of plan.

Marcon

PostMetaller said:

I have 2 AVC policies that were taken out in the late 90s linked to my company scheme. They were defined contribution schemes.

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.  I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy. This process started a month ago and still has not been sorted. It feels though I am back in the time of pen, quill and carrier pigeon.

'Pointing it out' won't help when Aviva's hands are tied by their contract with the trustees. The 'issue' here isn't Aviva; it's the need to understand that, back in the day, that's how things worked (and some still do).

PostMetaller

dunstonh said:

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.

That is normal where the administrators are only using the provider to carry out their instructions.   

 I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy.

The contract won't allow them to.  They didn't chose for it to be like that.  The trustees in conjunction with the administrators did.

Frustratingly, I have another pension policy taken out a little later, which I can see online and can make switches electronically with Aviva.

That will be a policy where Aviva is the administrator.

Has anyone else had similar issues with managing their legacy AVC products?
Especially the issue with needing scheme trustee agreement for fund switches within defined contribution holdings?

yes.. Although normally you are told to deal with the administrator. and not the trustees.

Secondly - I am not going through this rigmarole every time I want to make a fund switch, so I am going to look to transfer the two policies to another provider.  Can anyone recommend a pension provider that they have used, where transferring in, online access and availability of various funds to manage online has gone well?

Any of them, including your current provider.   Remember that the issue is not the provider of the plan but the type of plan.

Thank you, that is very helpful.

it doesn't remove my frustration about the effort that I need to undertake to effect a switch in fund holdings.  It feels as though there is no focus on me as the customer/pension holder. 

I don't want to be in the position where it takes a month to facilitate a fund switch so it looks like a transfer is my best option.

Marcon

PostMetaller said:

dunstonh said:

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.

That is normal where the administrators are only using the provider to carry out their instructions.   

 I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy.

The contract won't allow them to.  They didn't chose for it to be like that.  The trustees in conjunction with the administrators did.

Frustratingly, I have another pension policy taken out a little later, which I can see online and can make switches electronically with Aviva.

That will be a policy where Aviva is the administrator.

Has anyone else had similar issues with managing their legacy AVC products?
Especially the issue with needing scheme trustee agreement for fund switches within defined contribution holdings?

yes.. Although normally you are told to deal with the administrator. and not the trustees.

Secondly - I am not going through this rigmarole every time I want to make a fund switch, so I am going to look to transfer the two policies to another provider.  Can anyone recommend a pension provider that they have used, where transferring in, online access and availability of various funds to manage online has gone well?

Any of them, including your current provider.   Remember that the issue is not the provider of the plan but the type of plan.

Thank you, that is very helpful.

it doesn't remove my frustration about the effort that I need to undertake to effect a switch in fund holdings.  It feels as though there is no focus on me as the customer/pension holder. 

I don't want to be in the position where it takes a month to facilitate a fund switch so it looks like a transfer is my best option.

I can understand the frustration, but actually you aren't the customer/pension holder in respect of the AVC - the trustees of your DB scheme are. Aviva's responsibility is to them, not you, however annoying that might be.

PostMetaller

Marcon said:

PostMetaller said:

I have 2 AVC policies that were taken out in the late 90s linked to my company scheme. They were defined contribution schemes.

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.  I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy. This process started a month ago and still has not been sorted. It feels though I am back in the time of pen, quill and carrier pigeon.

'Pointing it out' won't help when Aviva's hands are tied by their contract with the trustees. The 'issue' here isn't Aviva; it's the need to understand that, back in the day, that's how things worked (and some still do).

Thanks for this.

It is frustrating that back in the day it took 24 hours to fax a request for a fund switch for these policies and it was done. Now, because of the passage of time and company takeovers etc and how this particular pension fund is now structured between the fund management/administrators/trustees that I have to take a month to try and do this.

PostMetaller

Marcon said:

PostMetaller said:

dunstonh said:

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.

That is normal where the administrators are only using the provider to carry out their instructions.   

 I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy.

The contract won't allow them to.  They didn't chose for it to be like that.  The trustees in conjunction with the administrators did.

Frustratingly, I have another pension policy taken out a little later, which I can see online and can make switches electronically with Aviva.

That will be a policy where Aviva is the administrator.

Has anyone else had similar issues with managing their legacy AVC products?
Especially the issue with needing scheme trustee agreement for fund switches within defined contribution holdings?

yes.. Although normally you are told to deal with the administrator. and not the trustees.

Secondly - I am not going through this rigmarole every time I want to make a fund switch, so I am going to look to transfer the two policies to another provider.  Can anyone recommend a pension provider that they have used, where transferring in, online access and availability of various funds to manage online has gone well?

Any of them, including your current provider.   Remember that the issue is not the provider of the plan but the type of plan.

Thank you, that is very helpful.

it doesn't remove my frustration about the effort that I need to undertake to effect a switch in fund holdings.  It feels as though there is no focus on me as the customer/pension holder. 

I don't want to be in the position where it takes a month to facilitate a fund switch so it looks like a transfer is my best option.

I can understand the frustration, but actually you aren't the customer/pension holder in respect of the AVC - the trustees of your DB scheme are. Aviva's responsibility is to them, not you, however annoying that might be.

I guess that's the nub of the matter. It was my money, I chose to invest it in a pension and now it has become difficult to manage with a process in place from a bygone era.  

dunstonh

PostMetaller said:

Marcon said:

PostMetaller said:

dunstonh said:

The policies have ended up being administered by Aviva.  I have recently requested a fund switch for the policies, only to be told that I need to get the authorisation of the scheme trustees first.  Aviva has put the management of this onto me, to contact the scheme trustees, get their agreement, send it back to Aviva etc.

That is normal where the administrators are only using the provider to carry out their instructions.   

 I have pointed out to Aviva that I pay management charges through my fund holdings and they should manage this internally, but no joy.

The contract won't allow them to.  They didn't chose for it to be like that.  The trustees in conjunction with the administrators did.

Frustratingly, I have another pension policy taken out a little later, which I can see online and can make switches electronically with Aviva.

That will be a policy where Aviva is the administrator.

Has anyone else had similar issues with managing their legacy AVC products?
Especially the issue with needing scheme trustee agreement for fund switches within defined contribution holdings?

yes.. Although normally you are told to deal with the administrator. and not the trustees.

Secondly - I am not going through this rigmarole every time I want to make a fund switch, so I am going to look to transfer the two policies to another provider.  Can anyone recommend a pension provider that they have used, where transferring in, online access and availability of various funds to manage online has gone well?

Any of them, including your current provider.   Remember that the issue is not the provider of the plan but the type of plan.

Thank you, that is very helpful.

it doesn't remove my frustration about the effort that I need to undertake to effect a switch in fund holdings.  It feels as though there is no focus on me as the customer/pension holder. 

I don't want to be in the position where it takes a month to facilitate a fund switch so it looks like a transfer is my best option.

I can understand the frustration, but actually you aren't the customer/pension holder in respect of the AVC - the trustees of your DB scheme are. Aviva's responsibility is to them, not you, however annoying that might be.

I guess that's the nub of the matter. It was my money, I chose to invest it in a pension and now it has become difficult to manage with a process in place from a bygone era.  

AVCs ceased to be mandatory for DB schemes to offer in 2006.  So, many schemes either stopped offering an AVC or left their offering unchanged from that period.     In the meantime, the retail market has improved, got cheaper, increased functionality etc   So, you are effectively looking at a black and white TV in world that retails ultra HD.   What do you do when an old product no longer gives you the functionality you want?   You go and buy a new one.

However, you do need to be on guard.  Some old plans look old and rubbish but have hidden qualities that you may not be aware of.  For example, some AVCs can link into the main DB scheme where the Tax free cash from the main scheme can utilise the AVC instead of having it come from the main scheme.