Confused about Transitional Tax Free Amount Certificates? I am!

Climberjohn

Situation:
Two pensions in payment; both defined benefit.
One, I took max tax free cash and get £15k/year; the other no cash and also £15k/year
I'd now like to take some tax free cash from my SIPP.
Am I now able to draw down £268,275 less the cash already drawn?

Or do I need a TTFAC?
Does it make any difference that I got IP2014?

Thanks for the help

zagfles

You'll probably need a TTFAC and IP will probably be a factor. See PTM170001 - Lump Sum Allowance and Lump Sum and Death Benefit Allowance: Contents - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Albermarle

Different SIPP providers seem to be approaching this issue about TTFAC differently, as the legislation is relatively new. Just so you are aware.

Climberjohn

zagfles said:

You'll probably need a TTFAC and IP will probably be a factor. See PTM170001 - Lump Sum Allowance and Lump Sum and Death Benefit Allowance: Contents - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Hi

Thanks for chatting!  I recognise that it's an altruistic act - thank you.

Your link goes to a page that references large chapters of specialist guidance, and each of those references many more.  Please, for the in-expert, can you be a little more specific?

Thanks

Somebody

OP, you're in the same position as I am wrt the 2 DB pensions re commutation, although I don't have the Individual Protection.

I requested a TTFAC from the DB administrator from which I took a PCLS, after providing evidence from the other DB administrator that no PCLS was taken.  I then received the TTFAC from the former setting out the %ge of the LTA used in total, the Lump Sum Allowance, the Lump Sum and Death Benefit Allowance (which were the same for me).

Hope this helps.

zagfles

Climberjohn said:

zagfles said:

You'll probably need a TTFAC and IP will probably be a factor. See PTM170001 - Lump Sum Allowance and Lump Sum and Death Benefit Allowance: Contents - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Hi

Thanks for chatting!  I recognise that it's an altruistic act - thank you.

Your link goes to a page that references large chapters of specialist guidance, and each of those references many more.  Please, for the in-expert, can you be a little more specific?

Thanks

My understanding is that if you don't ask for a TTFAC they'll assume you took lump sums of 25% of LTA used at 2023/24 LTA value. If you took less than that then a TTFAC could mean more tax free cash available. But if you took more, then getting a TTFAC could mean less tax free cash (it could be more if you took tax free cash when the LTA was higher) and there's no going back apparently once you've requested one. And I think you have to do it at the first rBCE under the new rules if you're going to do it. But I don't know how IP affects things. 

If the HMRC pension tax manual isn't understandable then you could try googling for pension providers' explanations, these are usually aimed at advisers but are often more understandable than the HMRC PTM. 

Albermarle

zagfles said:

Climberjohn said:

zagfles said:

You'll probably need a TTFAC and IP will probably be a factor. See PTM170001 - Lump Sum Allowance and Lump Sum and Death Benefit Allowance: Contents - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Hi

Thanks for chatting!  I recognise that it's an altruistic act - thank you.

Your link goes to a page that references large chapters of specialist guidance, and each of those references many more.  Please, for the in-expert, can you be a little more specific?

Thanks

My understanding is that if you don't ask for a TTFAC they'll assume you took lump sums of 25% of LTA used at 2023/24 LTA value. If you took less than that then a TTFAC could mean more tax free cash available. But if you took more, then getting a TTFAC could mean less tax free cash (it could be more if you took tax free cash when the LTA was higher) and there's no going back apparently once you've requested one. And I think you have to do it at the first rBCE under the new rules if you're going to do it. But I don't know how IP affects things. 

If the HMRC pension tax manual isn't understandable then you could try googling for pension providers' explanations, these are usually aimed at advisers but are often more understandable than the HMRC PTM. 

 But if you took more, then getting a TTFAC could mean less tax free cash (it could be more if you took tax free cash when the LTA was higher) and there's no going back apparently once you've requested one

By coincidence I received my TTFCC pack ( that is what they call it) from Fidelity this morning.
They say in certain circumstances the Certificate could result in less tax free cash. In this case they say they would just not issue it.