problems with wooden driveway gates

dreaming

I had new driveway gates fitted at the side of my house last year (approx. 6ft high X 7ft6in wide) and since then have had problems with the bolts continually going out of alignment. I understand that wood will expand and contract with weather conditions but the guy who fitted the gates can't understand why that hasn't settled down by now. He came again this week (for about the 6th time) and is totally baffled as the posts show no sign of movement (one is attached to the house, and one to a concrete fence panel), and the hinges are heavy duty ones and showing no sign of movement either. At the moment I can't bolt either the top or bottom bolts but the middle latch is still ok. My builder is going back to the gate supplier to see if they can offer a solution but I thought I would ask on here to see if anyone can offer an explanation/solution. The gate itself is well made with treated wood - tongue and groove type main boards with thick "Z" reinforcing bars, and has bolts going into the ground for stability. It then has heavy duty metal bolts top and bottom which I can then padlock, with a metal latch in the middle. Apart from the security aspect, which is very important, the gates make a horrible racket when it's windy as they are not securely fastened apart from the ground bolts. Any ideas please? Or do I have to consider a different material for the gate such as aluminium/composite?

Bradden

A photo or two would be really useful.. . The two  most likely issues I can think of (I work in the trade)...

1, The gate is unsuitable for the width. I would only offer a pair of gates over 6ft if they have sufficient bracing for the span.

2, Is the gate "hung" from the concrete fence post? How have they secured the hinges?

Kiran

What sort of gate hinges is it on? Are the the adjustable type with a nut to wind the gates in/out or up/down? If so and the gates are solid as you've suggested, it might be that the wind is causing enough vibration for the nuts to loosen. If you have a suitable driveway surface maybe worth installing a gate caster to share the load and also dampen the wind

dreaming

Bradden said:

A photo or two would be really useful.. . The two  most likely issues I can think of (I work in the trade)...

1, The gate is unsuitable for the width. I would only offer a pair of gates over 6ft if they have sufficient bracing for the span.

2, Is the gate "hung" from the concrete fence post? How have they secured the hinges?

Not able to post photos - sorry. One gate is hung from a post bolted to the house, the other gate post is bolted to a concrete fence post (which itself is on a concrete pad). I have just measured the gates and they are wider than I thought - each one being 45ins wide. The posts don't show any movement whatsoever The builder tested that when he visited) and the hinges also seem very firm. I did ask if he thought the gates were just too wide to adjust to atmospheric conditions but he said he has fitted plenty of gates and never had this problem before. He has done other work for me to an excellent standard and has a good reputation so I'm sure he is not trying to rip me off. He hasn't charged me at all when he or his carpenter have come and adjusted the bolts, responds very quickly, and seems to want to try to fix the problem.  By bracing - do you mean the cross-pieces across each gate? I said it was a "Z" but it is more of a "double Z" - if that makes sense. The hinges themselves are galvanised metal T-bar - 3 on each gate, and screwed in to the post. There doesn't appear to any movement there.
I have a feeling that I need to have narrower gates fitted with fixed side panels, and I think it is the change in temperature, humidity etc. which may be causing the problem. a couple of the gaps (the tong and groove part) is markedly wider at the top of the gate to the bottom. I guess all the rain we have had hasn't helped (although the wood is treated) and if we do have sun the gates get the full blast of it virtually all day. I did look at composite gates but they are mega-expensive (but may be worth saving for).
Thanks for your input.

dreaming

Kiran said:

What sort of gate hinges is it on? Are the the adjustable type with a nut to wind the gates in/out or up/down? If so and the gates are solid as you've suggested, it might be that the wind is causing enough vibration for the nuts to loosen. If you have a suitable driveway surface maybe worth installing a gate caster to share the load and also dampen the wind

The hinges are galvanised metal "T-bar and screwed into the gates and posts. When the bolts have been adjusted they are firm enough to stop the rattling in the wind but after a few weeks the bolts go out of alignment (sometimes just one, sometimes both) even though there seems to be no "loose" screws etc. I am beginning to think it is atmospheric changes and that the gates are too wide to accommodate them (they are in full sun all day - when it is out).
Thanks for your suggestions and I shall speak to my builder later and hopefully come up with a solution.

ThisIsWeird

dreaming said:

Bradden said:

A photo or two would be really useful.. . The two  most likely issues I can think of (I work in the trade)...

1, The gate is unsuitable for the width. I would only offer a pair of gates over 6ft if they have sufficient bracing for the span.

2, Is the gate "hung" from the concrete fence post? How have they secured the hinges?

Not able to post photos - sorry. One gate is hung from a post bolted to the house, the other gate post is bolted to a concrete fence post (which itself is on a concrete pad). I have just measured the gates and they are wider than I thought - each one being 45ins wide. The posts don't show any movement whatsoever The builder tested that when he visited) and the hinges also seem very firm. I did ask if he thought the gates were just too wide to adjust to atmospheric conditions but he said he has fitted plenty of gates and never had this problem before. He has done other work for me to an excellent standard and has a good reputation so I'm sure he is not trying to rip me off. He hasn't charged me at all when he or his carpenter have come and adjusted the bolts, responds very quickly, and seems to want to try to fix the problem.  By bracing - do you mean the cross-pieces across each gate? I said it was a "Z" but it is more of a "double Z" - if that makes sense. The hinges themselves are galvanised metal T-bar - 3 on each gate, and screwed in to the post. There doesn't appear to any movement there.
I have a feeling that I need to have narrower gates fitted with fixed side panels, and I think it is the change in temperature, humidity etc. which may be causing the problem. a couple of the gaps (the tong and groove part) is markedly wider at the top of the gate to the bottom. I guess all the rain we have had hasn't helped (although the wood is treated) and if we do have sun the gates get the full blast of it virtually all day. I did look at composite gates but they are mega-expensive (but may be worth saving for).
Thanks for your input.

You seem to have successfully eliminated all the other possible causes, so this almost certainly leaves changing weather conditions, as you suspect.
Vertical boards will - I think - be far more affected than horizontal; they'll each accumulatively expand more sideways than lengthways.
Your idea of fixed panels and smaller gates is good and would likely work.
I wonder if full width steel straps both sides, top and bottom, would stabilise the gate enough? Of course this, itself, would expand with heat!
Could straps be added in an acceptable aesthetic way? If so, worth trying before scraping/cutting down the gates?

Murmansk

Seems to me that the amount of movement needed to make a bolt not fit is actually quite small - for the avoidance of doubt here I mean a bolt that keeps the gate shut not a bolt that attaches anything as in nut and bolt. 

On big wooden gates like you describe I'd have thought a degree of expansion and contraction is inevitable as is a bit of "sagging" so it seems to me almost inevitable that the bolt will lose alignment to some degree.

Bookworm105

Is the wooden gate misalignment consistent ie both latches have dropped or it is inconsistent ?

With the hinges attached to firm posts, then it is most likely (as suggested above) to be incorrect bracing. Either a design flaw or the gates have been hung upside down - the diagonal ("z") brace should go from bottom of hinge side to top end of gate.

if it is inconsistent then it must be the wood is showing differential expansion and contraction. Either a design flaw or failure to adequately waterproof them

dreaming

Bookworm105 said:

Is the wooden gate misalignment consistent ie both latches have dropped or it is inconsistent ?

With the hinges attached to firm posts, then it is most likely (as suggested above) to be incorrect bracing. Either a design flaw or the gates have been hung upside down - the diagonal ("z") brace should go from bottom of hinge side to top end of gate.

if it is inconsistent then it must be the wood is showing differential expansion and contraction. Either a design flaw or failure to adequately waterproof them

When the gates were fitted they were fine for about 8 weeks - then the bottom bolt went out of alignment. The goy readjusted it but then a few weeks later the top bolt wouldn't lock. Each bolt has now been adjusted a few times (sometimes just one, sometimes both) but now I can't use either bolt - just the gate latch which isn't really offering any support.  The guy is hopefully coming round today to discuss (he has spoken to the gate-maker). I am going to ask him to fix a post to one of the gates so that it is static (I have never used that gate) and fit a castor to the one I do use as a support. If the problem persists I will have solid panels both sides and one smaller gate. The guy I use has a good local reputation and has done other work for me to a good standard so I want to give him a chance to fix things but I may have to find someone else to do it  - which is a pain, tbh, but these things happen.