Unable to prove NHS pension connection after 25 years service - where can I get support?

xmoore

Hi, my mum has recently had to move into a nursing home and has dementia. 
Whilst I have PoA and have dealt with service providers and building issues on her behalf for many years now, it wasn't until the eye watering nursing home fees had to be paid that I had a sudden lightbulb moment when I realised that there was no NHS Pension coming in, even though she'd working in various places over some 25 years.
I started searching and filling in forms, but after nearly a year now, I'm back to square one.
The NHS pensions people state they have no record of my mum. 
I have no staff or payroll number, she worked for different NHS areas in Kent and Surrey, a mixture of part and full time. 
Her NHS career ended around 1976 and I'm told payroll data only has to be held for 7 years and it was the responsibility of local NHS to inform the NHS pension people of their members.
I've spoken to so many people now I'm lost about what to do next.  
Due to the period her working years fall into, I'm not 100% sure what she would have been allowed to contribute into or be eligible for.
Later years involved the mental health team in Epsom. 
Someone suggested checking with DWP to see if her NI contributions were opted out, thus 'proving' some kind of pension contribution. I have not completed this yet as I'm not sure what it would prove the NHS pensions would take note of.
I'm also not ruling out the fact that if she did have a pension, that she may have taken all of it out when she left in 1976 (if that was even possible), but even if she did, surely the NHS would have a record of that?
He final NHS role was community nursing for Kingston and Richmond Area Health Authority.
I've filled in the standard NHS enquiry form with zero records found.

I just was looking for any ideas on perhaps a different approach.  Thanks.

Regards David Moore

p00hsticks

xmoore said:

Someone suggested checking with DWP to see if her NI contributions were opted out, thus 'proving' some kind of pension contribution. 

I can't be of much help I'm afraid, but I believe that it is HMRC rather than DWP that you'd need to get in touch with, as it is they that hold the NI records. 

saucer

Is it possible that she opted out of the pension?

Marcon

xmoore said:

Hi, my mum has recently had to move into a nursing home and has dementia. 
Whilst I have PoA and have dealt with service providers and building issues on her behalf for many years now, it wasn't until the eye watering nursing home fees had to be paid that I had a sudden lightbulb moment when I realised that there was no NHS Pension coming in, even though she'd working in various places over some 25 years.
I started searching and filling in forms, but after nearly a year now, I'm back to square one.
The NHS pensions people state they have no record of my mum. 
I have no staff or payroll number, she worked for different NHS areas in Kent and Surrey, a mixture of part and full time. 
Her NHS career ended around 1976 and I'm told payroll data only has to be held for 7 years and it was the responsibility of local NHS to inform the NHS pension people of their members.
I've spoken to so many people now I'm lost about what to do next.  
Due to the period her working years fall into, I'm not 100% sure what she would have been allowed to contribute into or be eligible for.
Later years involved the mental health team in Epsom. 
Someone suggested checking with DWP to see if her NI contributions were opted out, thus 'proving' some kind of pension contribution. I have not completed this yet as I'm not sure what it would prove the NHS pensions would take note of.
I'm also not ruling out the fact that if she did have a pension, that she may have taken all of it out when she left in 1976 (if that was even possible), but even if she did, surely the NHS would have a record of that?
He final NHS role was community nursing for Kingston and Richmond Area Health Authority.
I've filled in the standard NHS enquiry form with zero records found.

I just was looking for any ideas on perhaps a different approach.  Thanks.

Regards David Moore

If she left in 1976, it won't help - contracting out was only introduced in 1978, so I'm afraid that's a dead end.

If she left the scheme on or after 10 October 1972 (this is earlier than the general legislative date of 6 April 1975) and had at least five years of pension scheme membership, then she'd be entitled to a 'deferred' pension. It's going to be very difficult to prove that, as you are finding out - and she may not have qualified in any case. Part-timers weren't allowed to join the NHS pension scheme until a House of Lords confirmation in 2001, giving part time employees the right to join an occupational pension scheme -  but only backdated to 8 April 1976. 

I'm very sorry not to be able to offer a more optimistic answer.

Silvertabby

If each period of employment was for less than 5 years then she may have a taken a refund of her contributions, assuming that she was eligible to join in the first place.

It's perfectly normal for NHS pensions not to keep 'no further entitlement' records beyond a certain number of years.  

Marcon

Silvertabby said:

If each period of employment was for less than 5 years then she may have a taken a refund of her contributions, assuming that she was eligible to join in the first place.

It's perfectly normal for NHS pensions not to keep 'no further entitlement' records beyond a certain number of years.  

Just found some useful dates: https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-01/NHS%20Pension%20Scheme%20Useful%20Dates-20180122-%28V2%29.pdf

Qualifying period for NHS pension was actually 10 years until it was reduced to 5 on 1 October 1972, which makes it even more unlikely that this lady would have qualified for deferred benefits. 

xmoore

saucer said:

Is it possible that she opted out of the pension?

Yes, I had considered this.  I've no way of knowing.  Thanks.

xmoore

Marcon said:

xmoore said:

Hi, my mum has recently had to move into a nursing home and has dementia. 
Whilst I have PoA and have dealt with service providers and building issues on her behalf for many years now, it wasn't until the eye watering nursing home fees had to be paid that I had a sudden lightbulb moment when I realised that there was no NHS Pension coming in, even though she'd working in various places over some 25 years.
I started searching and filling in forms, but after nearly a year now, I'm back to square one.
The NHS pensions people state they have no record of my mum. 
I have no staff or payroll number, she worked for different NHS areas in Kent and Surrey, a mixture of part and full time. 
Her NHS career ended around 1976 and I'm told payroll data only has to be held for 7 years and it was the responsibility of local NHS to inform the NHS pension people of their members.
I've spoken to so many people now I'm lost about what to do next.  
Due to the period her working years fall into, I'm not 100% sure what she would have been allowed to contribute into or be eligible for.
Later years involved the mental health team in Epsom. 
Someone suggested checking with DWP to see if her NI contributions were opted out, thus 'proving' some kind of pension contribution. I have not completed this yet as I'm not sure what it would prove the NHS pensions would take note of.
I'm also not ruling out the fact that if she did have a pension, that she may have taken all of it out when she left in 1976 (if that was even possible), but even if she did, surely the NHS would have a record of that?
He final NHS role was community nursing for Kingston and Richmond Area Health Authority.
I've filled in the standard NHS enquiry form with zero records found.

I just was looking for any ideas on perhaps a different approach.  Thanks.

Regards David Moore

If she left in 1976, it won't help - contracting out was only introduced in 1978, so I'm afraid that's a dead end.

If she left the scheme on or after 10 October 1972 (this is earlier than the general legislative date of 6 April 1975) and had at least five years of pension scheme membership, then she'd be entitled to a 'deferred' pension. It's going to be very difficult to prove that, as you are finding out - and she may not have qualified in any case. Part-timers weren't allowed to join the NHS pension scheme until a House of Lords confirmation in 2001, giving part time employees the right to join an occupational pension scheme -  but only backdated to 8 April 1976. 

I'm very sorry not to be able to offer a more optimistic answer.

Thanks very much.  Some good detail here, it's that detail around part time working and the right to join is key.  This seems pretty hopeless I fear.