Change of quote mid work

domdeath

Hello,
I am having my roof replaced and after getting multiple quotes, selected one. We agreed to the quote and paid the 50% deposit to cover materials, scaffold and skip cost. 
Scaffold got put up but then had a 3 week delay as there was a "2 to 3 week delivery date on the tiles".
A few weeks later he finally started stripping tiles and over a 2 week period spent 4 days doing this and putting up membrane and battens. 2 weeks go by after this and I don't see him at all (although the recent rain didn't help this). He then messages saying he needs to talk.
After 3 or 4 attempts, he finally actually came round to talk and wants an extra 3.5k on top of the initial 16k quote as he underestimated material costs. He lied about the tiles in the first place as they didn't get delivered after the initial message saying there will be a delay but he would have known about the costs then (which, crucially, is before he started stripping my roof)

Do I pay? We are fed up of the scaffold (plus are due to have windows fitted in a couple of weeks) and are tempted to but equally think it is a bit of a scam as he has us over a barrel now the roof is half off. Is he legally obliged to complete the work for the value of the quote? I fear if we don't pay it then he will just walk leaving us with half a job that no one will want to touch.

DullGreyGuy

What are the terms of the quote? Look on the quote paperwork or the covering email etc. 

A quote, rather than estimate, generally should mean its the price unless any additional work is discovered during the process however it is possible to give a quote for labour and estimate costs saying they'll be a straight passthrough. In that scenario it is possible for the price to go up if they've been charged more than estimated for the materials. 

domdeath

There dont appear to be any special terms, it came through as:
Full roofline replacement

£16,000.00

Remove existing roof tiles,felt and battens 

Replace with new breathable felt,weather treated batten and new roof tile 

Cover existing fascia and soffit with new upvc fascia and soffit board 

Install new guttering 

Replace flat roofs to property x1 grp fibreglass resin

Osb overboard 

Fibreglass trims 

Grp fibreglass resin system 

Labour,materials,scaffold and skip hire included in final cost 

ThisIsWeird

Do you have Legal Protection in your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice and guidance on how to handle this.

AfaIk, the sum you paid as a deposit to cover the materials, scaffolding and skip means that you legally own these items (excluding any labour they have carried out). But that doesn't mean it'll be easy to get hold of it should you say 'Non' to the extra, and they leave.

How did their quote compare with the other ones - was it 'suspiciously' cheap?

What type of house - photo ideal - and where in the country (hopefully folk on here can give an idea whether it's a reasonable quote)?

Anthony147

You do need to thoroughly check the quote BUT and it’s big but - He clearly knew what the items costed when he ordered them (building material deliveries for common stock items are remarkably swift and next day is very common) so it’s very unlikely the price has increased during the job at all but he wants more from the job.

It’s also worth saying unless your roof is something unusual or you’ve got particularly expensive tiles - 3.5k increase would be almost doubling on material costs for a typical reroof job.

Unfortunately for you and I think you know it already - from what you’ve said, he’s pulling a fast one and knows you can’t get someone else immediately and your roof is effectively open to the elements.

Do you have ALL the materials you are due in your possession currently?
Are you realistically able to cease or hold the work for someone else?

If both of these are yes - then I’d suggest getting rid of him, being clear why.

If the answer is no, Say whatever to get the get the job done (ensuring a big sum left to pay on completion), get the scaffold down, skip removed. - Then and only then pay what you were quoted and tell him to take you to court.

This is without doubt, deeply confrontational and an escalation but puts the leverage back in your hands provided you can and will handle any fallout and know that you are burning all bridges with him.

Whilst the courts can introduce remedies, that is a long road and not guaranteed to succeed or even with enforcement actually be paid.

I do hope you get things sorted and suggest you share your story on local socials, your socials and neighbourhood sites far and wide as you won’t be the only customer they will do this to.

domdeath

No, I don't yet have all the materials in my possession - which is part of my reluctance to hand over more money, especially since he supposedly placed the order multiple weeks ago. I have had one pallet of tiles delivered, but no where near 8ks worth of materials. 

The house is a little unusual for the area, it has a "Dutch cottage" style roof with an additional steep pitch coming down from the "traditional" roofline, but it is immediately obvious and clearly saw this when he quoted. 

The quote happened to be the cheapest, but not suspiciously so, instead we went with him because he seemed to speak most openly about why to go with certain options etc (never trust a book eh?)

Home insurance legal protection is a great call, I'll get on it.

Anthony147, I did consider this option but I presume I would need to make sure I don't agree to anything in writing before he continues, which I will find hard to do.

born_again

ThisIsWeird said:

Do you have Legal Protection in your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice and guidance on how to handle this.

AfaIk, the sum you paid as a deposit to cover the materials, scaffolding and skip means that you legally own these items (excluding any labour they have carried out). But that doesn't mean it'll be easy to get hold of it should you say 'Non' to the extra, and they leave.

How did their quote compare with the other ones - was it 'suspiciously' cheap?

What type of house - photo ideal - and where in the country (hopefully folk on here can give an idea whether it's a reasonable quote)?

OP would need to check if these are actually owned by builder or hired.
If hired, then the costs for these will be escalating week by week.

Section62

Anthony147 said:

You do need to thoroughly check the quote BUT and it’s big but - He clearly knew what the items costed when he ordered them (building material deliveries for common stock items are remarkably swift and next day is very common) so it’s very unlikely the price has increased during the job at all but he wants more from the job.
....

The pandemic and then the energy crisis has impacted on cost and availability for some materials - bricks and tiles have been particularly affected.  If you need large quantities for a job - e.g. a whole roof replacement - then the odds are they won't be coming ex-stock from the local builders merchant.

Some materials suppliers have been adding energy surcharges (or scarcity surcharges) with the option of customers paying or not getting the delivery.

Although things have settled down a bit, it isn't entirely implausible that the roofer got a quote (or placed an order) for tiles and was then subsequently told they couldn't be supplied at that cost.  We can only guess at whether the roofer is telling the truth or not.

Anthony147 said:

If the answer is no, Say whatever to get the get the job done (ensuring a big sum left to pay on completion), get the scaffold down, skip removed. - Then and only then pay what you were quoted and tell him to take you to court.

If the scaffolding is removed before the job is finished the OP will have a bigger headache and/or greater costs.  Unless the roofer is daft, they probably won't agree to finish the job until the OP has committed to paying the revised quote.  If there is doubt over getting paid the roofer might write the job off and cut and run - possibly with no warning he's about to do so.

OP, is the roofer a sole trader or a limited company?  Do you know who the scaffolding has ben provided by?

Anthony147

Section62 said:

Anthony147 said:

You do need to thoroughly check the quote BUT and it’s big but - He clearly knew what the items costed when he ordered them (building material deliveries for common stock items are remarkably swift and next day is very common) so it’s very unlikely the price has increased during the job at all but he wants more from the job.
....

The pandemic and then the energy crisis has impacted on cost and availability for some materials - bricks and tiles have been particularly affected.  If you need large quantities for a job - e.g. a whole roof replacement - then the odds are they won't be coming ex-stock from the local builders merchant.

Some materials suppliers have been adding energy surcharges (or scarcity surcharges) with the option of customers paying or not getting the delivery.

Although things have settled down a bit, it isn't entirely implausible that the roofer got a quote (or placed an order) for tiles and was then subsequently told they couldn't be supplied at that cost.  We can only guess at whether the roofer is telling the truth or not.

Anthony147 said:

If the answer is no, Say whatever to get the get the job done (ensuring a big sum left to pay on completion), get the scaffold down, skip removed. - Then and only then pay what you were quoted and tell him to take you to court.

If the scaffolding is removed before the job is finished the OP will have a bigger headache and/or greater costs.  Unless the roofer is daft, they probably won't agree to finish the job until the OP has committed to paying the revised quote.  If there is doubt over getting paid the roofer might write the job off and cut and run - possibly with no warning he's about to do so.

OP, is the roofer a sole trader or a limited company?  Do you know who the scaffolding has ben provided by?

@section62 Probably worth rereading what I’ve written in totality as your selections are wholly out of context and create dissonance that reading and digesting it all wouldnt present.

In general Supply shortages havent been a “thing” for several months (but the rumour remains) on as mentioned common items and in fact off site material storage costs are currently increasing due to lack of throughput - if you’re having shortages on common items (bricks and tiles - provided you’ve not registered for bricks elsewhere) let me know and I can put you in touch with some suppliers who have stock.

Supplies for a single house roof would not be a large order for most merchants and the price / availability would be confirmed at ordering and as stated for common items - that could be same day but is very commonly next day.

The scaffold down is after the job is done as per the sentence before it regarding getting the job done. It may also be useful to read the sentence after where I point out the risks of doing so and put it in bold text.

As it stands, the OP has half a job and a demand for a lot more money than appears to be justified, with a roofer who timed it so they had no choice in the matter so if they can get the job done and create leverage, that’s good for them. If the roofer also wants the extra money beforehand, well that says a lot and can only be interpreted as heading towards a rip off as he’s had 50% already. 

Happy to clarify but the same info was in the original post.

Section62

Anthony147 said:

section62 Probably worth rereading what I’ve written in totality as your selections are wholly out of context and create dissonance that reading and digesting it all wouldnt present.

Thanks, I read the whole of your post, but only quoted the points I wanted to comment on as per common practice for lengthy posts.

Anthony147 said:

In general Supply shortages havent been a “thing” for several months (but the rumour remains) on as mentioned common items and in fact off site material storage costs are currently increasing due to lack of throughput - if you’re having shortages on common items (bricks and tiles - provided you’ve not registered for bricks elsewhere) let me know and I can put you in touch with some suppliers who have stock.

Supplies for a single house roof would not be a large order for most merchants and the price / availability would be confirmed at ordering and as stated for common items - that could be same day but is very commonly next day.

"In general" being quite important there.  You asserted "He clearly knew what the items costed when he ordered them" but we don't know that.  We don't know whether he was able to secure a delivery from the company he went to first, or that any price originally agreed was honoured.  My own experience is that some materials are still difficult to get hold of, but what is affected is variable, and I assume there will probably be area/regional variations so one person's experience may not reflect another's.  But for some of us it remains a "thing", rather than a "rumour".   That your suppliers have stock is great, but probably not of much use to the OP's roofer unless he happens to use the same ones.  And whether they have stock of the type of tiles the OP wanted remains unclear (we don't know the type of tiles, nor whether there was any flexibility on alternatives).

Anthony147 said:

The scaffold down is after the job is done as per the sentence before it regarding getting the job done. It may also be useful to read the sentence after where I point out the risks of doing so and put it in bold text.

As it stands, the OP has half a job and a demand for a lot more money than appears to be justified, with a roofer who timed it so they had no choice in the matter so if they can get the job done and create leverage, that’s good for them. If the roofer also wants the extra money beforehand, well that says a lot and can only be interpreted as heading towards a rip off as he’s had 50% already. 

Happy to clarify but the same info was in the original post.

I was just emphasising the point that the scaffolding being removed before the job is completed could be problematic for the OP.  The cost of getting alternative scaffolding - in addition to the difficulty in finding a trader willing to finish someone else's job - may ultimately mean the OP is better off swallowing the increased price and chalking it up to experience.

The risk of "Say[ing] whatever to get the get the job done..." is either becoming legally liable to pay the full (higher) cost, or causing the roofer not to trust your word.  The latter, in particular, would be running the risk of the scaffolding vanishing without warning and the OP left with a half-finished roof.  That is a key issue, and answers the final point of the OP's initial post.

ThisIsWeird

One other thing, Dom - if you suspect that this builder is trying it on, or being eco with the truth, or a complete shyster, then I'd suggest having your phone set to record whenever you have verbal dealings with him. Or even invest in a £15 discrete pocket recorder from t'Bay.

If he is a chancer, then he'll very likely contradict himself at some point, over - say - the reasons for the increase. This could be very useful if the situation does go 'legal'.

(Recordings to be kept secure, not shared with any unauthorised person, and deleted if ultimately not required.)