Parked outside bay in my block of flats - Debt Recovery Letter from bwlegal

Raposao135

Hello all,
I am a newbie, I read the FAQs and the newbies thread. I am trying to understand in what step I am currently at and what to do/how to respond.

Yesterday, 05/06/24 I got a letter from bw legal saying I got a PCN for "parking outside the confines of a marked bay".
This happened at my block of flats where I recently bought a leasehold flat. I do have a delimited bay in the parking lot, that is part of my lease. I have not got the original PCN (my V5 was not updated to my new address yet or they did not even send one), and this letter does not include any detail, so I do not know what happened.

The only times I've parked outside my bay were times when I had to park on street to move things from my car to my flat, as the lift to my flat has its access from the street, not from the car park, and my bay is at the farthest point from the entrance. Again, this is the only reason I can think of for parking outside my bay, and the date of the PCN is almost 2 months ago. I do not even know if I was the one driving. The street where I could have parked in this case is part of the estate, all private land.

Let's say the date of the PCN was 16 March. This letter was issued 30 May. I received it on 05/06 and they tell me to pay by 05 July.

They mention at the end if I do not pay they will send me a Letter of Claim.

So, do I treat this letter as my Notice To Keeper? Do I appeal to POPLA or has the time passed? Does this letter have to be POFA 2012 compliant?

Or should I just emailed them telling them to give up pursuing this? something like this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80421536/#Comment_80421536

If they do proceed to court, do they have a real case against me or nothing to worry about?

Thank you very much.

LDast

Is the "street" where you parked to load and/or unload a public highway or is it a private road which is part of the property?

You could write to BW Legal and tell them that you have no intention of paying them or their scamming (Hansard) client a penny for parking in your own demised parking bay. Tell them to provide a copy of the original NtK that was issued and any photographic evidence they hold. Play dumb about the street element of parking.

At the same time, tell them to erase your old address and to update their records with your current address.

What you have received above is only a debt collection letter and normally we would just advise you to ignore it. They do state that their next correspondence will be an actual Letter of Claim but to head that off, the email letter above may just get them to clarify what the PCs was for and they should send you a copy so that you are better prepared for the eventual claim.

Raposao135

LDast said:

Is the "street" where you parked to load and/or unload a public highway or is it a private road which is part of the property?

It is private road, belonging to the estate, shared by all blocks of flats.

I will email them asking for their evidence and see if they have a picture of the supposed parking.
thanks

Coupon-mad

Raposao135 said:

LDast said:

Is the "street" where you parked to load and/or unload a public highway or is it a private road which is part of the property?

It is private road, belonging to the estate, shared by all blocks of flats.

I will email them asking for their evidence and see if they have a picture of the supposed parking.
thanks

FAR FAR more important is the other advice above from @LDast that he said you must also state. You seem to have missed the important reason to respond

Raposao135

Coupon-mad said:

Raposao135 said:

LDast said:

Is the "street" where you parked to load and/or unload a public highway or is it a private road which is part of the property?

It is private road, belonging to the estate, shared by all blocks of flats.

I will email them asking for their evidence and see if they have a picture of the supposed parking.
thanks

FAR FAR more important is the other advice above from @LDast that he said you must also state. You seem to have missed the important reason to respond

Is the below good enough?

thanks!

Re PCN number: xxxxxxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. I have no intention of paying your or your client a penny for my car being parked in my own demised parking bay.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving, and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your letter is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence and for you to provide a copy of the original Notice to Keeper that was issued. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Erase any old address you may have in my name and update your records with my current address listed below.


THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER GOES HERE

THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

Gr1pr

No , that is the appeal template for the first stage appeal process, the deadline to appeal will have expired weeks ago 

So no appeal stage, no Popla, none of that at all

Read what Ldast stated again, it's a bespoke reply, not a template appeal 

h2g2

If you were stopped to unload your persuasive authority will be Jopson v Homeguard: https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf

Raposao135

Gr1pr said:

No , that is the appeal template for the first stage appeal process, the deadline to appeal will have expired weeks ago 

So no appeal stage, no Popla, none of that at all

Read what Ldast stated again, it's a bespoke reply, not a template appeal 

Just this then?

Re PCN number: xxxxx

I have no intention of paying you or your client a penny for my car being parked in my own demised parking bay.

I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, and for you to provide a copy of the original Notice to Keeper that was issued. You must include a close-up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

Erase any old address you may have in my name and update your records with my current address listed below.


THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER GOES HERE

Raposao135

Hello all,

I have received a Letter of Claim from BWLegal.
The letter is dated 09/08/2024 and I received it on 17/08/2024.
Basically it says that they might take me to court if I do not pay the balance of £160.00 by 08/09/2024.
If they take me to court the debt will increase to £245.00 with the added fees. I cites the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, paragraph 7.
There is an Annex 1 - Information Sheet explaining about debt and what to do.
There is a Reply form asking if I acknowledge the debt and if I intend to pay it.
There is a Income and Expenditure Form from BWLegal.

As per my understanding I should email them the following (my edit in bold):

Dear Sirs,
Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd
I refer to your letter of claim.
I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]
The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.
I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').
I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".
Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have no intention of paying you or your scamming (Hansard) client a penny for parking in my own demised parking bay. Please provide a copy of the original NtK that was issued and any photographic evidence you hold.

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:
1. Am I to understand that the additional £60 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?
Yours faithfully

My question here is when do I email this to them? Should I wait until 07/09/2024 and them this gives me an extra 30 days?
I have two week trip abroad in October, I do not know how fast court proceedings move, etc. I assume I would have to be here if they send any more letters or to be present in court. What is the best move here?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

I wouldn't ask them to put it on hold then.

Raposao135

I finally got the original PCN from BW Legal. Unlike I previously thought, I was not parked to unload my car. The car was photographed parked on the street outside the building, at 1 am of a Sunday back in March. I know for a fact I was not driving then, I was out of the country and only came back 4 days later. I do not know at the moment who the driver was. Does that make any difference at this point?

Is this still worth fighting? On what would I base my defense in this case?
Thanks