Civil Enforcement PCN - last day to appeal with them tomorrow 06/06

busyasusual

Thank you all, just submitted the appeal. Let's see now.

Gr1pr

busyasusual said:

The issue date is 9 days after the parking session delivered to me 16 days after but I can't prove when the letter arrived.

I believe is POFA compliant.

Then they posted it in good time, it is presumed to be delivered 2 working days later, so the intention was to comply 

Given all the Royal mail issues regarding slow and missing post, not meeting government targets etc, it's not really the fault of CEL or any company or department, more likely to be the fault of RM. Its been on TV and in the news a lot, including Rip-off Britain yesterday morning.  Its certainly not going to win this case so I dont believe that you should dwell on it. 

Your case will depend on the more important core issues regarding Offer, Consideration, Acceptance, contract law, signage and landowner authority, not issues with RM

The drivers issues were with the phone, payment app , data signal, delays in pàying exceeding any consideration time etc. having the payment receipt could mean that any future claim is de minimis and frivolous etc , so a court may side with you, but it remains to be seen what the appeals do for now 

And do not dismiss plan A, you have not contacted the actual landowner yet 

IMHO of course 

LDast

busyasusual said:

The front page has the photographs of the vehicle including the VRN as well when we got in and out - no timestamp in the photograph btw just in the fields from and to in the form.

The above will come in useful when your appeal is rejected and you take it to POPLA. The BPA Code of Practice (CoP) section 21.5a states "You must not digitally or by other means alter images used as photographic evidence other than to blur faces or the VRMs of other vehicles in the image in accordance with your GDPR obligations or to enhance the image of the VRM for clarity."

If the images on the NtK have been cropped or altered, irrespective of whether they are intact with the timestamps on the file images, then they have been "altered" and therefore the NtK is not valid and has been issued incorrectly. Just lead the POPLA assessor by the nose to that point and also point out that this has already been seen to be a winning point at POPLA case 2413353469 where Assessor Gayle Stanton noted: "I have reviewed the copy of the NTK provided by the operator and I am not satisfied that the images of the vehicle number plate on the NTK are compliant with Section 21.5a of the BPA Code of Practice.

These images are not date stamped and after seeing the full images in the case file they appear to have been digitally altered or cropped to fit on the NTK. This is especially apparent on the colour image on the NTK."

busyasusual

Thank you both. 

@Gr1pr - no, I haven't contacted yet should I contact now or waiting first for their response?

Not sure how to find the landowner, via land registry I suppose?

Le_Kirk

busyasusual said:

Thank you both. 

@Gr1pr - no, I haven't contacted yet should I contact now or waiting first for their response?

Not sure how to find the landowner, via land registry I suppose?

One of the forum regulars @Umkomaas regularly posts info on how to find landowners.  Search the forum.

Umkomaas

Le_Kirk said:

busyasusual said:

Thank you both. 

@Gr1pr - no, I haven't contacted yet should I contact now or waiting first for their response?

Not sure how to find the landowner, via land registry I suppose?

One of the forum regulars @Umkomaas regularly posts info on how to find landowners.  Search the forum.

Here you go:

SOME IDEAS FOR DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

busyasusual

They came back and as expected they rejected the appeal

Danien

I'm new to reading the parking forums and I can't believe these firms. So you have to pay within 10 minutes or you get a penalty, but their app is so difficult to use, it's really hard to pay within 10 minutes. Insane!

Coupon-mad

Danien said:

I'm new to reading the parking forums and I can't believe these firms. So you have to pay within 10 minutes or you get a penalty, but their app is so difficult to use, it's really hard to pay within 10 minutes. Insane!

Scam, innit?!

Danien

Coupon-mad said:

Danien said:

I'm new to reading the parking forums and I can't believe these firms. So you have to pay within 10 minutes or you get a penalty, but their app is so difficult to use, it's really hard to pay within 10 minutes. Insane!

Scam, innit?!

Yep, sure is!!!