Help! Failure to Identify Drive - not sure what will happen next...

OxonMan75

I need to pick the brains of the MSE hive mind, as I have an issue looming on the horizon that could lead to my losing my licence. It would be great to hear about other people's experiences, as there's so much conflicting information on the internet.

I generally like to think of myself as a safe / good driver, but have occasionally picked up points on my licence for driving a bit too fast. In June 2022, I had 3 points added to my licence, and I thought until last week that that's all I had. However, I've found out over the last week that this isn't actually the case. The story is below:

In April / May last year we moved house, and I immediately updated the address on my driving licence with DVLA. However, I didn't update the address on my V5C until a few months later - initially I didn't realise that I had to, and once I found out that I needed to change the address on my logbook, I couldn't find it (It must have got lost in the house move). After a few months, I told DVLA that I had lost my V5C and applied for a new one with the correct address.

Fast forward to now, last Wednesday when I got my payslip, I saw that there was a deduction of £1,000 for 'COURT FINES'. I had no idea what this was for, and hadn't receive any notification from either my employer or the courts that this was going to be deducted, but my employer did have a letter from BHTV COMPLIANCE that they were able to send to me. I also viewed my licence online, and noticed that I had been given 6 points and a fine of £660 for 'MS90'. This means that I now have 9 points.

I also found out during the course of my research that, as I knew nothing about the case, I needed to complete a Statutory Declaration. After 90 minutes on hold to the Courts & Tribunal Service Centre, they sent me a link that I completed (this was on Monday and I still haven't heard anything back, even though I know that I only have 21 days to lodge a stat dec).

I'm really not sure what will happen / what to do next. My concern is that even if the case is reopened, I will end up still having the 6 points on my licence for the Failure to Inform, 3 points for the speeding offence (62mph in a 50mph zone - I have seen photographic evidence of this, which HMCTS forwarded to me), and a further 3 points from 2022 = 12 points and a ban. I am the only one who drives in the family, and I need my car for work, so I can't really afford to lose my licence. It also seems really unfair for me to lose my licence through a mistake - I did not deliberately choose to ignore the original NIP or any further correspondence.

I would really appreciate it if anyone who know about these things or has had a similar experience could let me know what is likely to happen next, and any strategies for dealing with it. Thanks in advance!

Car_54

When you complete the statdec, you will normally be asked to plead to the initial charge(s). 

If charged with both speeding and failure to furnish, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FTF is dropped. That would normally be accepted, so 3 points.

If only FTF is charged, you may still be able to suggest that to the prosecutor. If not, you need to plead guilty to FTF (you are) - 6 points.

Notice that they have no evidence to find you guilty of speeding, so you cannot get 9 points.

Whatever, there will be a fine (income-related) reduced by 1/3 for a guilty plea, plus a 40% surcharge, and prosecution costs of c.£90.

OxonMan75

Car_54 said:

When you complete the statdec, you will normally be asked to plead to the initial charge(s). 

If charged with both speeding and failure to furnish, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FTF is dropped. That would normally be accepted, so 3 points.

If only FTF is charged, you may still be able to suggest that to the prosecutor. If not, you need to plead guilty to FTF (you are) - 6 points.

Notice that they have no evidence to find you guilty of speeding, so you cannot get 9 points.

Whatever, there will be a fine (income-related) reduced by 1/3 for a guilty plea, plus a 40% surcharge, and prosecution costs of c.£90.

Thanks for the speedy (no pun intended!) reply Car_54! That's reassuring, I really don't want to lose my licence.

Any idea how long it will take for the Courts & Tribunal Service Centre to get back to me about the stat dec? I'm very aware that there's a 21 day time limit and that I also need to make an appointment to swear to it in court. Or do you think it would be better for me to download and complete the form and take it to the nearest magistrate's office now that I have the case details?

LightFlare

Car_54 said:

When you complete the statdec, you will normally be asked to plead to the initial charge(s). 

If charged with both speeding and failure to furnish, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FTF is dropped. That would normally be accepted, so 3 points.

If only FTF is charged, you may still be able to suggest that to the prosecutor. If not, you need to plead guilty to FTF (you are) - 6 points.

Notice that they have no evidence to find you guilty of speeding, so you cannot get 9 points.

Whatever, there will be a fine (income-related) reduced by 1/3 for a guilty plea, plus a 40% surcharge, and prosecution costs of c.£90.

I believe the way to do this is to plead not guilty to both but add a letter/comment stating the above

Head to https://www.ftla.uk/ and they will talk you through the process

akm2018

I think I'm right in saying that if you (not you specifically, just in general) get banned (even just from totting up points), they have a policy to only do it face-to-face, in court, so that they can impress on you the gravity of the situation and that you really really must not drive while banned. At such a time is when you argue any "my family depend on me as the sole driver" mitigation.

Car_54

LightFlare said:

Car_54 said:

When you complete the statdec, you will normally be asked to plead to the initial charge(s). 

If charged with both speeding and failure to furnish, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FTF is dropped. That would normally be accepted, so 3 points.

If only FTF is charged, you may still be able to suggest that to the prosecutor. If not, you need to plead guilty to FTF (you are) - 6 points.

Notice that they have no evidence to find you guilty of speeding, so you cannot get 9 points.

Whatever, there will be a fine (income-related) reduced by 1/3 for a guilty plea, plus a 40% surcharge, and prosecution costs of c.£90.

I believe the way to do this is to plead not guilty to both but add a letter/comment stating the above

Head to https://www.ftla.uk/ and they will talk you through the process

Sending a letter won't apply to the OP. He will be in court in person to swear the statdec.

Car_54

OxonMan75 said:

Car_54 said:

When you complete the statdec, you will normally be asked to plead to the initial charge(s). 

If charged with both speeding and failure to furnish, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FTF is dropped. That would normally be accepted, so 3 points.

If only FTF is charged, you may still be able to suggest that to the prosecutor. If not, you need to plead guilty to FTF (you are) - 6 points.

Notice that they have no evidence to find you guilty of speeding, so you cannot get 9 points.

Whatever, there will be a fine (income-related) reduced by 1/3 for a guilty plea, plus a 40% surcharge, and prosecution costs of c.£90.

Thanks for the speedy (no pun intended!) reply Car_54! That's reassuring, I really don't want to lose my licence.

Any idea how long it will take for the Courts & Tribunal Service Centre to get back to me about the stat dec? I'm very aware that there's a 21 day time limit and that I also need to make an appointment to swear to it in court. Or do you think it would be better for me to download and complete the form and take it to the nearest magistrate's office now that I have the case details?

AFAIK you'll be Ok so long as you make the appointment within the 21 days. Instead of waiting for a reply from HMCTS, just phone the actual court.

OxonMan75

Car_54 said:

OxonMan75 said:

Car_54 said:

When you complete the statdec, you will normally be asked to plead to the initial charge(s). 

If charged with both speeding and failure to furnish, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FTF is dropped. That would normally be accepted, so 3 points.

If only FTF is charged, you may still be able to suggest that to the prosecutor. If not, you need to plead guilty to FTF (you are) - 6 points.

Notice that they have no evidence to find you guilty of speeding, so you cannot get 9 points.

Whatever, there will be a fine (income-related) reduced by 1/3 for a guilty plea, plus a 40% surcharge, and prosecution costs of c.£90.

Thanks for the speedy (no pun intended!) reply Car_54! That's reassuring, I really don't want to lose my licence.

Any idea how long it will take for the Courts & Tribunal Service Centre to get back to me about the stat dec? I'm very aware that there's a 21 day time limit and that I also need to make an appointment to swear to it in court. Or do you think it would be better for me to download and complete the form and take it to the nearest magistrate's office now that I have the case details?

AFAIK you'll be Ok so long as you make the appointment within the 21 days. Instead of waiting for a reply from HMCTS, just phone the actual court.

Thanks, that makes sense. I'll make the appointment today. 

Mildly_Miffed

OxonMan75 said:

It also seems really unfair for me to lose my licence through a mistake - I did not deliberately choose to ignore the original NIP or any further correspondence.

But you did fail to do what was legally required - to make sure that the address on the V5C was one at which you could be reached in a timely manner...

That's why you're being penalised for failing to reply to the NIP. Because you *did* fail to. True, you didn't reply because you didn't receive it... but that's only down to not having updated the address. That in itself can be penalised by a fine of up to £1,000 - although no points.

https://www.gov.uk/change-address-v5c

TooManyPoints

That's why you're being penalised for failing to reply to the NIP. Because you *did* fail to. True, you didn't reply because you didn't receive it... but that's only down to not having updated the address.

That's quite true. But most prosecutors realise that the penalty for a driver for what is, after all, a minor administrative oversight, is quite harsh. Apart from the six points, the endorsement code (MS90) is absolutely crippling for insurance. That's why, so long as they are convinced that the driver is not trying to pull a fast one, they will invariably agree to the "deal" outlined here.

That in itself can be penalised by a fine of up to £1,000 - although no points

But very rarely prosecuted.

OxonMan75

Mildly_Miffed said:

OxonMan75 said:

It also seems really unfair for me to lose my licence through a mistake - I did not deliberately choose to ignore the original NIP or any further correspondence.

But you did fail to do what was legally required - to make sure that the address on the V5C was one at which you could be reached in a timely manner...

That's why you're being penalised for failing to reply to the NIP. Because you *did* fail to. True, you didn't reply because you didn't receive it... but that's only down to not having updated the address. That in itself can be penalised by a fine of up to £1,000 - although no points.

I completely understand the technicalities and am not arguing against that. Definitely a cautionary tale and not something to be done again next time we move. My question was more what I can do about it now.

Having said that, from what I've read the police state that once you have changed your address, you are no longer committing an offence and so that is not something that can come back to bite you. I'm just glad that I did change the address on my V5C once I was aware that I needed to.

The thing is that the initial fine was £660, but it escalated to £1,000 because I did not respond (because I was unaware of the case). I'm hoping that by resetting the case, I will be able to reduce the penalty. What I don't want is to be charged once for speeding and again for failing to inform though, but from reading the other comments it seems as though that won't happen.