Holiday Pay Differs 40 Hours over 5 Day & 6 Day Week?

philng

We are entitled to 28 days paid holidays & work a 40 hour week.

Why would an employee who works these same 40 hours over 6 days to suit business needs be paid less for a week holiday than one who works the hours over 5 days?

Co has a new system via Fourth & we believe the calculations to be incorrectly penalising staff holiday pay who work their hours over more than 5 days.

My average weekly hours over last 52 weeks are 51 but my week holiday pay was only 44 hours because they are calculating my average days worked per week as 5.8.

Last year system was just holidays based on hours worked and pro rata from there. No of days a week didn't come in to it. 

Brie

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

philng

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

Andy_L

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

no. The definitive legal position is they cannot be treated unfavorably compared to full-time staff.

Hourly calculation should be used because it makes the calculations so much easier & avoids people getting confused over eg BHs for people who don't work Mondays, people who do differing hours each day etc

Hoenir

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

Converting annual leave into hours. Is a standard practice in many industries.  Where employees don't work defined regimented days. 

Those on flexible contracts will accrue holiday leave on the basis of actual hours worked. 

philng

Andy_L said:

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

no. The definitive legal position is they cannot be treated unfavorably compared to full-time staff.

Hourly calculation should be used because it makes the calculations so much easier & avoids people getting confused over eg BHs for people who don't work Mondays, people who do differing hours each day etc

So this is very useful.

Our employer recently changed to using the Fourth app and there appears to be multiple issues v the system they used last year for holiday pay.

i am aware they should be using last 12 month average on hours worked but they are only using since April when the new app launched. Surely this is not allowed? They claim app only has that data but the Co obviously has longer term data they could obtain.

Additionally as they are counting holiday days taken as zero hours this reduces the average so an employee working 40 hours a week would never average 40 hours over the year so a holiday week is paid at less than 40 hours.

Finally they are using a daily average rate of pay for holidays so an employee for example working 40 hours over 6 days a week is paid less holiday pay than one who works same hours over 5 days as their daily average rate is lower.

i am sure all 3 of the above are incorrect but need a definitive reference or answer.

Undervalued

Andy_L said:

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

no. The definitive legal position is they cannot be treated unfavorably compared to full-time staff.

Hourly calculation should be used because it makes the calculations so much easier & avoids people getting confused over eg BHs for people who don't work Mondays, people who do differing hours each day etc

That is correct but I don't see how it helps here.

Surely both the OP and the other employee they mention are full time, just with different contractual working patterns? After all they both work the same total hours and 40 hours is a very common number for a "full time" job!

If one was clearly part time then I agree they couldn't legally be disadvantages purely for that reason.

philng

Hoenir said:

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

Converting annual leave into hours. Is a standard practice in many industries.  Where employees don't work defined regimented days. 

Those on flexible contracts will accrue holiday leave on the basis of actual hours worked. 

So you state standard practice. Does that mean they have to?

I can't get my head round why an employee working the same hours over say 6 days a week only receives 5/6 of their weekly pay for a 5 day holiday but one who works the same hours over 5 days receives 100% of their weekly pay.

Also using taking out all the holiday weeks (5.6) and counting them as Zero in the average weekly pay calculation over 12 months means a person working 40 hours a week for example over a year will NEVER receive the full 40 hour pay for a week off. It will always be less.

saajan_12

philng said:

Hoenir said:

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

Converting annual leave into hours. Is a standard practice in many industries.  Where employees don't work defined regimented days. 

Those on flexible contracts will accrue holiday leave on the basis of actual hours worked. 

So you state standard practice. Does that mean they have to?

I can't get my head round why an employee working the same hours over say 6 days a week only receives 5/6 of their weekly pay for a 5 day holiday but one who works the same hours over 5 days receives 100% of their weekly pay.

Also using taking out all the holiday weeks (5.6) and counting them as Zero in the average weekly pay calculation over 12 months means a person working 40 hours a week for example over a year will NEVER receive the full 40 hour pay for a week off. It will always be less.

You say its a 5 day holiday - so what are they doing that week on the 6th day? Are they working, or also on holiday / at home? 

philng

saajan_12 said:

philng said:

Hoenir said:

philng said:

Brie said:

Likely they are being paid less as they are being paid for 5 days so 5/6 of their weekly pay.  But if they are taking the full week off then they should get the full 40 hours paid.  Same as if someone who works the 40 hours over 4 days shouldn't get more because someone is thinking they'll get 5 days of pay instead of 4.  

Holiday calculations by hours should be used for anyone outside of the normal M-F 40 hours.  

Is that the definite legal position? Your final sentence?

If so would explain the issues we are having as majority of staff are on flexible contracts so work variable days to suit business needs & regularly a 40 hour worker may spread their hours over 6 days for example.

Converting annual leave into hours. Is a standard practice in many industries.  Where employees don't work defined regimented days. 

Those on flexible contracts will accrue holiday leave on the basis of actual hours worked. 

So you state standard practice. Does that mean they have to?

I can't get my head round why an employee working the same hours over say 6 days a week only receives 5/6 of their weekly pay for a 5 day holiday but one who works the same hours over 5 days receives 100% of their weekly pay.

Also using taking out all the holiday weeks (5.6) and counting them as Zero in the average weekly pay calculation over 12 months means a person working 40 hours a week for example over a year will NEVER receive the full 40 hour pay for a week off. It will always be less.

You say its a 5 day holiday - so what are they doing that week on the 6th day? Are they working, or also on holiday / at home? 

Not working its just a 1 week holiday.