APCOA - Entered/departed 20 min free stay car park twice in a day

Phaze100

I've read the Newbie thread and apologies but I've no idea how I go about proving that I entered the car park twice in one day. Facts...
Railway car park 20 min free stay car park
Entered 11am left 11.10am
Entered 21.00pm left 21.15pm

APCOA have issued a Parking charge notice for parking without valid payment.
Numberplate recorded via ANPR (front numberplate at 11am, back numberplate at 21:15pm)

They have failed to record/show me leaving at 11:10am and re-entering at 21:00pm.

The car is registered to our company but they have my name as I appealed via their email address.

Please could someone kindly advise what I should do, I hate the injustice of this.

Any advise hugely appreciated. thanks

Gr1pr

They don't show people, they monitor vehicles 

There is no keeper liability on railway land so the keeper has no liability, only the driver 

This scenario is a typical double dip where orphan images are not checked, a lack of due diligence 

There are numerous methods of proving that the vehicle was elsewhere 

But your main appeal point is the lack of keeper liability, assuming that your initial appeal did not reveal the drivers details or involvement. ?

Did they issue a Popla code with the rejection. ?

Phaze100

Thanks Gr1pr, I'm not sure if I gave the driver name but the PCN was issued to Company Secretary at Business Name/Address and now shows my name at Business Name/Address, I cant remember if I completed the section Driver Details or Keeper Details or even if they ask that information on their online appeal form.

How can I prove the vehicle was elsewhere? I have CCTV at home but this is only saved for 14 days which has expired.

No Popla code given with the rejection.

Thanks for your help.

Gr1pr

Let us see the rejection, redacted of course 

Some vehicles have a black box using VPM

I have a dash cam in my vehicle 

Phones usually have a way of being tracked contained within them, be they Apple or android 

They may have taken pictures elsewhere that day, so the metadata will show it, it the picture itself 

People may have receipts or banking statements showing they were elsewhere like Tesco or Sainsbury's etc 

But 

Your main point as keeper would be POFA schedule 4 not applying, so no keeper liability if they don't know who was driving, so you should have come here first for suitable advice, because it was an easy appeal with a typical rebuttal template, plus the added part about double dipping 

The usual tactic is to never divulge who was driving 

Coupon-mad

How can you have a rejection letter with no POPLA code? It's not a rejection letter maybe?

LDast

In your initial appeal, did you use any wording such as "...I parked" or "...I drove to"? If so, you have inadvertently admitted to being the driver. You need to understand that the driver is always liable for the charge. Unfortunately, for APCOA, they have or had no idea of the identity of the driver unless the appellant, usually the keeper who is known, spills the beans, inadvertently or otherwise to them.

If you have spilled the beans, so to speak, then what follows is irrelevant. In most cases of PCNs issued on private land, because the driver is unknown, the PPC can, if they so wish, rely on the provisions of PoFA 2012 to transfer the liability of the unknown driver to the known keeper and recover the charge from them. However, because your case happened at a railway station, in the vast majority of cases, the land at a railway station is not what is known as "relevant land". Because it is not relevant land, the PPC (APCOA in this case) cannot use the provisions of PoFA to transfer the liability from the unknown driver to the known keeper. As such, they are stuffed as they are not allowed to presume or infer that the keeper must also be the driver and so, an appeal reminding of this Catch 22, invariably is the end of the matter.

So, for future reference, never ever reveal the identity of the driver. You are always responding to anything from a PPC scammer as the keeper. This could have been quashed with a simple appeal that works every time.

However, all is not lost. As this is about a "double dip" scenario, the burden of proof is on APCOA to show that your car was there for the whole period. You know that is not the case but are stressing out on how you can prove you weren't. Unfortunately for APCOA, they have breached a requirement in their ATA Code of Practice. BPA CoP 22.2 which states that before they issue a parking charge notice they must carry out a manual quality check of the ANPR images to reduce errors and make sure that it is appropriate to take action.

Now it is obvious that they haven't done any manual quality check because there are two "orphan images", the first exit and the second entry to the location, that are in their system but have been mislaid. They know that to try and tamper with their system and either pretend they don't exist or, heaven forbid, try and delete them, they are going to get caught and that would put a very expensive damper on their cash cow because they would not only be fined but also banned from being able to request DVLA data to find out who to send their invoices to.

Therefore, in your POPLA appeal, you are going to demand that APCOA are going to have to prove that your car was parked for the whole duration and not "double dipped". They will have to prove that they searched for the "orphan images" and explain why they did not do the manual quality checks as required by their CoP, which is another reason for the POPLA assessor to accept your appeal.

There are other points to add to your POPLA appeal but, unfortunately, if you have identified as being the driver, you have wasted the best and guaranteed winning point.

Phaze100

Thanks @LDast, I really appreciate your time and the advice.  Should I repond to Apcoa or POPLA? Apcoa have requested I respond to them.  Please note my pictures hopefully on this thread which show their original PCN stating I left at 21:32 with no mention of me entering at 11:52, they only gave this information once I appealed via their online form, any further correspondence has to be posted to a PO Box.

Coupon-mad

Oh it's on hold, so let it stew. Wastes more time.  All good.

KeithP

So they haven't rejected your appeal.
They clearly state that they have placed the matter on hold for fourteen days and asked that you supply further details.

No need to do that.
Wait patiently for the appeal rejection letter which will include a PoPLA code.

Phaze100

Thank you all for your advice.  Just wondering if I should wait a few days before the 14 day expiry and respond with the below letter (info kindly provided by @LDast) Hardly slept last night, completely "wired" thinking of how I can repay the stress Apcoa are causing me! 

Concerning the above parking charge notice.  The notice provided a photograph of the vehicle at 21:32 for which an explanation was given in your online appeal form.  The notice did not mention that the vehicle entered the car park at 11:32.

Apcoa responded 3rd June 2024 and provided further detail “entering the car park at 11:52 and leaving at 21:32”.

The vehicle was not parked for the duration 11:52 until 21:32, the vehicle entered the car park at 11:52 and left within the permitted timeframe of 20 mins.  The vehicle entered again later that day and did not overstay the 20 min timeframe before it left at 21:32.

This is a "double dip" scenario and you have breached a requirement in your ATA Code of Practice. BPA CoP 22.2 which states that before Apcoa issue a parking charge notice you must carry out a manual quality check of the ANPR images to reduce errors and make sure that it is appropriate to take action.

I kindly request that your ANPR images are manually checked for the duration.

The image at 21:32 does not show a legible numberplate on the actual vehicle only a clear shot of the “blown-up” numberplate, please can this be provided.

Please note that the car is a registered company car and was driven by different drivers at 11:52 and 21:32 so I am unable to provide driver details.

(They know I was driving at 21:32 and have my name....huge mistake, never to be made again!)

Gr1pr

Stop worrying, take a chill pill, its no biggie, certainly nothing to lose sleep over 

You told me that you had received a rejection, not a 14 days hold notice 

Its a phishing reply, wanting driver's details 

Sit on your hands and do nothing at all, wait for an actual rejection, one that contains a Popla code ( or it could be a cancellation. )

Once you receive a proper reply, come back to this thread for further guidance , especially if they provide a Popla code 

You have 2 excellent Popla appeal points, which means that APCOA are likely to say no contest when they see that appeal you will make to Popla, throwing in the towel, as usual for them