Finder's fee/ransom

eskbanker

Morsing_2 said:

I'm still asking if the law supports refusing to hand people their own property. If so, does anyone have any links showing this?

[...]

I had a look through the legislation regarding found items and I found absolutely nothing saying you could demand a fee or in anyway refuse to hand it back.

Which specific legislation are you looking at?

I'd have thought that there are plenty of scenarios where you don't have the unilateral unfettered right to retake possession of your own property without payment of a fee, ranging from cars in garages or pounds (before payment of bill) through to money in restricted access accounts - these obviously aren't completely analogous though.

Businesses operating in airports are also subject to tighter controls and higher expenses than those elsewhere, and there may be airport-specific byelaws or regulations granting rights that don't apply in the outside world.

Alderbank

This is the law of bailment.

Normally you have both ownership and possession of your goods such as your watch and your phone. Bailment comes into play when you still have ownership but someone else has possession.

If you leave your watch, phone or bag in a shop or on a bus, the person responsible has possession but not ownership of your goods. Under common law he can't just give your stuff to someone else or throw it in the bin because it doesn't belong to him.
That person has become the involuntary bailee of your property. You entered into a legal relationship with him when you left your goods in his charge.
The law expects him to take reasonable care of them for you and to only charge his reasonable costs incurred by for example storing the goods securely and checking that you are the rightful owner.

You could pay the £25 demanded to get your stuff back then sue him for charging excessive costs. However a court might not agree with you.

You could refuse to pay and demand he returns your goods. If he just wants rid of them he might accede. But if he just keeps hold until you pay there is not much you can do. Certainly the police will not intervene - it is a civil matter and certainly not theft.

[Deleted User]

Could have been worse, security might have identified your lost bag as a suspect package and destroyed it.
This would have caused lots of inconvenience for others at the airport.
As we've all been told many times - do not leave bags unattended. I think you've been very lucky....

born_again

. Charges range from £5 to £25 with no charge for children’s soft toys

https://smartecarte.co.uk/services/lost-property/

Morsing_2

DullGreyGuy said:

Morsing_2 said:

Good morning,

The company is SmartCarte at Heathrow Airport.

So its an airport and therefore there will be byelaws https://www.heathrow.com/company/doing-business-with-heathrow/flight-conditions-of-use/heathrow-byelaws

Claim of property
If any lost property, while it is retained by the Airport Company in safe custody, is claimed and the claimant proves to the satisfaction of the Airport Company or an Airport Official that he is the true owner and gives his name and address to a member of staff of the Lost Property Office or an Airport Official, it shall thereupon be delivered to the claimant at the Lost Property Office upon payment of such charges as the Airport Company may from time to time fix for the return of any lost property delivered to the Lost Property Office.

So there is their legal basis for charging you for the administration of the lost property

That is very interesting, thank-you. However, the item was not lost at the airport, but I can now see why they conveniently transport it there.

Morsing_2

Grumpy_chap said:

Did you find anything in the legislation to say that a fee cannot be charged?

That's not really how the law works.

Grumpy_chap said:

What is the item you have lost?  Is it worth £25 to have it back?

And that is completely irrelevant to my question.

DullGreyGuy

Morsing_2 said:

I lost a bag recently, which ended up at the location's Lost & Found office (thankfully), 

Morsing_2 said:

The company is SmartCarte at Heathrow Airport.

Morsing_2 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Morsing_2 said:

Good morning,

The company is SmartCarte at Heathrow Airport.

So its an airport and therefore there will be byelaws https://www.heathrow.com/company/doing-business-with-heathrow/flight-conditions-of-use/heathrow-byelaws

Claim of property
If any lost property, while it is retained by the Airport Company in safe custody, is claimed and the claimant proves to the satisfaction of the Airport Company or an Airport Official that he is the true owner and gives his name and address to a member of staff of the Lost Property Office or an Airport Official, it shall thereupon be delivered to the claimant at the Lost Property Office upon payment of such charges as the Airport Company may from time to time fix for the return of any lost property delivered to the Lost Property Office.

So there is their legal basis for charging you for the administration of the lost property

That is very interesting, thank-you. However, the item was not lost at the airport

Now you are contradicting yourself as you originally said it was taken to the locations lost and found which is in Heathrow airport and are now saying it wasnt at the airport?

Okell

Alderbank said:

This is the law of bailment.

Normally you have both ownership and possession of your goods such as your watch and your phone. Bailment comes into play when you still have ownership but someone else has possession.

If you leave your watch, phone or bag in a shop or on a bus, the person responsible has possession but not ownership of your goods. Under common law he can't just give your stuff to someone else or throw it in the bin because it doesn't belong to him.
That person has become the involuntary bailee of your property. You entered into a legal relationship with him when you left your goods in his charge.
The law expects him to take reasonable care of them for you and to only charge his reasonable costs incurred by for example storing the goods securely and checking that you are the rightful owner.

You could pay the £25 demanded to get your stuff back then sue him for charging excessive costs. However a court might not agree with you.

You could refuse to pay and demand he returns your goods. If he just wants rid of them he might accede. But if he just keeps hold until you pay there is not much you can do. Certainly the police will not intervene - it is a civil matter and certainly not theft.

This ^^^^  -  in particular the last two paragraphs.

Morsing_2

TELLIT01 said:

The only way the OP can prove they are right is to pay up to get their item back and then take the company to court.  The OP seems to be ignoring the fact that they lost the bag in the first place and are actually very fortunate to be getting it back at all.  Somebody didn't just say to the OP, you've left your bag behind.  As others have said, keeping it safe for them, with the costs involved, needs to be recovered.

But that's still totally irrelevant to my question. And why don't they just charge £1 000, if that's the case? Are they just trying to be nice?

You're just having a rant for no reason.

pinkshoes

I'm curious as to how they obtain the "lost" property in the first place?

Do they go round collecting up all bags that look like they might be unattended? Or do people hand things in? At an airport most people would be too busy to go and hand in a lost bag, so the former seems more likely.

In which case this potentially become quite a profitable business collecting up bags. Very frustrating for someone who has just put their bag down, realised a moment later they'd forgotten it, then found it had been taken! 

And I thought the police took all unattended bags at airports?!?!