CSH2: taxation and performance

masonic

LateGenXer said:

wmb194 said:

30/04/25..

For CGT calculations, it's the reporting period end date (31/OCT/2024) that matters, regardless of the distribution date.  That's when Section 104 needs to be adjusted, so sales than happen between that date and the distribution date have their cost properly calculated.

Otherwise, one can get nonsense results.  Imagine somebody buys some 1 CSH2 on 30/OCT/2024, sells it on 1/NOV/2024.  It needs to consider the ERI.  But by the distribution date of 30/APR/2025 the S.104 hold should be at zero, given there are not shares held.  It's too late to adjust it then, or it would go negative.

(Ditto for notional income of accumulation shares of UK funds: S.104 should be adjusted on the ex-dividend date, not the dividend distribution date.)

Then why use the exchange rate on 30/05/2025? I'd have thought the exchange rate on 30/04/2025 should be used as that is when the currency conversion would have taken place. You linked to the HMRC table for April so I assume that was just a typo, which I presume was what wmb194 was correcting.

aroominyork

masonic said:

LateGenXer said:

wmb194 said:

30/04/25..

For CGT calculations, it's the reporting period end date (31/OCT/2024) that matters, regardless of the distribution date.  That's when Section 104 needs to be adjusted, so sales than happen between that date and the distribution date have their cost properly calculated.

Otherwise, one can get nonsense results.  Imagine somebody buys some 1 CSH2 on 30/OCT/2024, sells it on 1/NOV/2024.  It needs to consider the ERI.  But by the distribution date of 30/APR/2025 the S.104 hold should be at zero, given there are not shares held.  It's too late to adjust it then, or it would go negative.

(Ditto for notional income of accumulation shares of UK funds: S.104 should be adjusted on the ex-dividend date, not the dividend distribution date.)

Then why use the exchange rate on 30/05/2025? I'd have thought the exchange rate on 30/04/2025 should be used as that is when the currency conversion would have taken place.

I assume that was a typo (though it's not for me to say), but this is so damn complex that I think if you do something logical which isn't trying to evade a tax liability, and you have a trail, you won't get penalised. I'm going to use the 30/4/25 distribution date and lose no sleep.

masonic

aroominyork said:

masonic said:

LateGenXer said:

wmb194 said:

30/04/25..

For CGT calculations, it's the reporting period end date (31/OCT/2024) that matters, regardless of the distribution date.  That's when Section 104 needs to be adjusted, so sales than happen between that date and the distribution date have their cost properly calculated.

Otherwise, one can get nonsense results.  Imagine somebody buys some 1 CSH2 on 30/OCT/2024, sells it on 1/NOV/2024.  It needs to consider the ERI.  But by the distribution date of 30/APR/2025 the S.104 hold should be at zero, given there are not shares held.  It's too late to adjust it then, or it would go negative.

(Ditto for notional income of accumulation shares of UK funds: S.104 should be adjusted on the ex-dividend date, not the dividend distribution date.)

Then why use the exchange rate on 30/05/2025? I'd have thought the exchange rate on 30/04/2025 should be used as that is when the currency conversion would have taken place.

I assume that was a typo (though it's not for me to say), but this is so damn complex that I think if you do something logical which isn't trying to evade a tax liability, and you have a trail, you won't get penalised. I'm going to use the 30/4/25 distribution date and lose no sleep.

Yes, I noticed the link was for April shortly after posting, so clearly a typo.

Back in the days I was naively investing in ETFs unwrapped and declaring USD ERI, I think I used an unapproved XE.com exchange rate as I only later learned of the HMRC tables.

wmb194

LateGenXer said:

wmb194 said:

30/04/25..

For CGT calculations, it's the reporting period end date (31/OCT/2024) that matters, regardless of the distribution date.  That's when Section 104 needs to be adjusted, so sales than happen between that date and the distribution date have their cost properly calculated.

Otherwise, one can get nonsense results.  Imagine somebody buys some 1 CSH2 on 30/OCT/2024, sells it on 1/NOV/2024.  It needs to consider the ERI.  But by the distribution date of 30/APR/2025 the S.104 hold should be at zero, given there are not shares held.  It's too late to adjust it then, or it would go negative.

(Ditto for notional income of accumulation shares of UK funds: S.104 should be adjusted on the ex-dividend date, not the dividend distribution date.)

Erm, okay. I was referring to the ERI distribution date exchange rate, you stated 30/05/25 in your post.

LateGenXer

Ah, my bad.  Indeed, the exchange rate date was a typo.  (I thought wmb194  it was refering reporting period vs distribution date, which is a common FAQ.)

wmb194

masonic said:

aroominyork said:

masonic said:

LateGenXer said:

wmb194 said:

30/04/25..

For CGT calculations, it's the reporting period end date (31/OCT/2024) that matters, regardless of the distribution date.  That's when Section 104 needs to be adjusted, so sales than happen between that date and the distribution date have their cost properly calculated.

Otherwise, one can get nonsense results.  Imagine somebody buys some 1 CSH2 on 30/OCT/2024, sells it on 1/NOV/2024.  It needs to consider the ERI.  But by the distribution date of 30/APR/2025 the S.104 hold should be at zero, given there are not shares held.  It's too late to adjust it then, or it would go negative.

(Ditto for notional income of accumulation shares of UK funds: S.104 should be adjusted on the ex-dividend date, not the dividend distribution date.)

Then why use the exchange rate on 30/05/2025? I'd have thought the exchange rate on 30/04/2025 should be used as that is when the currency conversion would have taken place.

I assume that was a typo (though it's not for me to say), but this is so damn complex that I think if you do something logical which isn't trying to evade a tax liability, and you have a trail, you won't get penalised. I'm going to use the 30/4/25 distribution date and lose no sleep.

Yes, I noticed the link was for April shortly after posting, so clearly a typo.

Back in the days I was naively investing in ETFs unwrapped and declaring USD ERI, I think I used an unapproved XE.com exchange rate as I only later learned of the HMRC tables.

HMRC doesn't mind much which you source you use as long as you're consistent and it's fairly accurate. I use the ECB's daily rates.

Ciprico

I bought and sold since April 2025 CSH2 in general account, and the value increased by £1500.

I sold them when I realised the tax situation was complicated.

I understood if you sold before 30 Oct all the gain was CGT.

It doesn't really matter to me if the gain is cg or interest as I can be below the lowest thresholds for both...

Is this gain a clean capital Gain...?

masonic

Ciprico said:

I bought and sold since April 2025 CSH2 in general account, and the value increased by £1500.

I sold them when I realised the tax situation was complicated.

I understood if you sold before 30 Oct all the gain was CGT.

It doesn't really matter to me if the gain is cg or interest as I can be below the lowest thresholds for both...

Is this gain a clean capital Gain...?

There is only income if you are still holding on 31st October.

masonic

aroominyork said:

masonic said:

Ciprico said:

I bought and sold since April 2025 CSH2 in general account, and the value increased by £1500.

I sold them when I realised the tax situation was complicated.

I understood if you sold before 30 Oct all the gain was CGT.

It doesn't really matter to me if the gain is cg or interest as I can be below the lowest thresholds for both...

Is this gain a clean capital Gain...?

There is only income if you hold on 30th October.

I thought there was income if you held CSH2 on 31 October, the reporting date?

Yes, you beat my post edit once I realised a day had been lost by Ciprico.

slinger2

masonic said:

Ciprico said:

I bought and sold since April 2025 CSH2 in general account, and the value increased by £1500.

I sold them when I realised the tax situation was complicated.

I understood if you sold before 30 Oct all the gain was CGT.

It doesn't really matter to me if the gain is cg or interest as I can be below the lowest thresholds for both...

Is this gain a clean capital Gain...?

There is only income if you are still holding on 31st October.

But if you repurchase them within 30 days are you deemed to be holding them on 31 October? (assuming you sold them earlier in October) Or is the 30 days just a CGT rule?