Money moved between my own accounts before being stolen. Neither bank willing / able to help.

anonymouse666

Hi there, I’m not sure if this is the right place to post but I’m looking / hoping for some advice on any available options to try and resolve the situation outlined below. 

In short though, I:

• Have had ~£3,100 of my own money stolen.
• Am responsible for a £12,000 loan that was taken out in my name and stolen.
• Am stuck between 2 banks, neither of which are taking responsibility.

————-

In long:

3 weeks ago my phone was snatched whilst unlocked and 2 of my 3 banking apps were successfully accessed by the thief/thieves. The following then occurred in these 2 accounts. 

Halifax:

• ~£3,000 of my own money (everything in the account) was transferred to a third party account 
• An overdraft of £3,000 was taken out
• A £12,000 loan was taken out in my name
• £12,000 was transferred to my own Monzo account 

Monzo:

• This account only had £60 in it to start
• Once the transfer was received from the Halifax account, £9,975 was transferred to 2 third party accounts
• The remainder was blocked from leaving the account

Having spoken to both banks on numerous occasions and been given false hope several times, I am currently stuck in a position where both banks are blaming each other (with me as the go-between) and are refusing to act. 

• Halifax say they cannot act until the money is first recouped by Monzo and then transferred back into my Halifax account. As Monzo was the exit point for the majority of the money, they are responsible. 
• I was told by one Halifax advisor - that though unusual - they would be able to raise a fraud case against my own Monzo account should Monzo refuse my complaint. This was then claimed to be impossible by the advisor I spoke to the following week and that all options had been exhausted. 

• Monzo say that the fraud all happened on Halifax’s side so they are not responsible. 
• I complained but this was rejected. 
• They have closed my case and refused to take any responsibility. 

I have complained to the Ombudsman this week about Monzo so far, just because Halifax have been slightly more empathetic when I’ve spoken to them.

Does anyone know if I can / should raise a complaint against Halifax at the same time? I don’t want it to conflict with the current case or anything. 

Is there anything else I can do or anyone I should speak to? 

Fortunately I am not a vulnerable individual and, because my 3rd banking app was not breached, still have money to live on but it is certainly starting to weigh heavily on my mind. 

Thank you in advance. 

eskbanker

anonymouse666 said:

3 weeks ago my phone was snatched whilst unlocked and 2 of my 3 banking apps were successfully accessed by the thief/thieves.

First things first, how were the thieves able to access bank apps and authorise transactions, even though the phone was unlocked?  What security did you have on the apps, e.g. biometrics, PINs, etc?

Do you have a police report?

km1500

hello I am sorry for the position you are in it must be awful however I do have a couple of questions 

even if you hand a fraudster an unlocked phone, in order to get into banking apps they need to know pins and/or biometrics - you can't just 'breach' them

in order to set up a new payee to transfer money out they would also need a biometric or pin authorisation ie you can't just do it 

in order to set up a loan again they would need additional security - how did the fraudsters know this 

sorry to ask these questions but it is the kind of thing banks will ask for when you report this kind of problem

anonymouse666

eskbanker said:

anonymouse666 said:

3 weeks ago my phone was snatched whilst unlocked and 2 of my 3 banking apps were successfully accessed by the thief/thieves.

First things first, how were the thieves able to access bank apps and authorise transactions, even though the phone was unlocked?  What security did you have on the apps, e.g. biometrics, PINs, etc?

Do you have a police report?

Face ID on Halifax, pin on Monzo. 

Once they had my unlocked phone they had access to every bit of personal information about me ever. With that they were able to answer all the security questions asked after clicking “Forgotten your sign in details?” - on Halifax at least. Monzo I’m less sure so far. 

I guess they were also able to change my Face ID / phone pin once they were in and had access to things like Apple. 

I do have a police report. 

noh

anonymouse666 said:

eskbanker said:

anonymouse666 said:

3 weeks ago my phone was snatched whilst unlocked and 2 of my 3 banking apps were successfully accessed by the thief/thieves.

First things first, how were the thieves able to access bank apps and authorise transactions, even though the phone was unlocked?  What security did you have on the apps, e.g. biometrics, PINs, etc?

Do you have a police report?

Face ID on Halifax, pin on Monzo. 

Once they had my unlocked phone they had access to every bit of personal information about me ever. With that they were able to answer all the security questions asked after clicking “Forgotten your sign in details?” - on Halifax at least. Monzo I’m less sure so far. 

I guess they were also able to change my Face ID / phone pin once they were in and had access to things like Apple. 

I do have a police report. 

Every bit?
I have just tried the Halifax app on iPhone and to gain access they would either need to know your username or sort code and account number of a bank or savings account held with them. Was this recorded without any security on your phone?

eskbanker

anonymouse666 said:

Does anyone know if I can / should raise a complaint against Halifax at the same time? I don’t want it to conflict with the current case or anything. 

I think it would be worth complaining against Halifax too, and it won't conflict with the separate complaint against Monzo.  The fact is that you didn't apply for the overdraft or the loan, so even though the proceeds were transferred into an account in your name they still have a case to answer, especially if it was viable for the account security to be breached, although I'd expect them to hold you at least partly responsible for that.

I still can't understand exactly what happened in terms of overriding face ID but how long was it between the theft and you notifying the banks?

dcs34

noh said:

anonymouse666 said:

eskbanker said:

anonymouse666 said:

3 weeks ago my phone was snatched whilst unlocked and 2 of my 3 banking apps were successfully accessed by the thief/thieves.

First things first, how were the thieves able to access bank apps and authorise transactions, even though the phone was unlocked?  What security did you have on the apps, e.g. biometrics, PINs, etc?

Do you have a police report?

Face ID on Halifax, pin on Monzo. 

Once they had my unlocked phone they had access to every bit of personal information about me ever. With that they were able to answer all the security questions asked after clicking “Forgotten your sign in details?” - on Halifax at least. Monzo I’m less sure so far. 

I guess they were also able to change my Face ID / phone pin once they were in and had access to things like Apple. 

I do have a police report. 

Every bit?
I have just tried the Halifax app on iPhone and to gain access they would either need to know your username or sort code and account number of a bank or savings account held with them. Was this recorded without any security on your phone?

Quite possibly stored on an email app with a 'Welcome to your new account' email. Sort codes can be reasonably possible to guess using local branch addresses. 

DullGreyGuy

They wouldn't be able to change the FaceID without knowing the phone PIN, there's a second layer of security even if the phone is unlocked. With most apps however you can dismiss the FaceID option and revert to the original log in password/pin etc which naturally is problematic if you are using the same details for each app. 

There was another case on here not that long ago but in that case the OP was assaulted and forced to unlock the banking apps for the thieves. Its probably worth using the search function to find that thread and read the outcome of it... it did go down several rabbit holes of posters trying to ascertain how the whole thing happened as the OP there was relatively light on details of how it had been achieved - in their case the monies were lifted several hours after the theft. 

You may as well start the complaint process with the other bank so that you have the option to go to the Ombudsman too when you get their final response if you still aren't happy.  Whilst they have been more empathetic they did ultimately allow the transfer to a new payee and two new credit products to be taken out without the people apparently having any pins or passwords. The transfer of monies to another account in your name is obviously more acceptable. 

eskbanker

DullGreyGuy said:

There was another case on here not that long ago but in that case the OP was assaulted and forced to unlock the banking apps for the thieves. Its probably worth using the search function to find that thread and read the outcome of it... it did go down several rabbit holes of posters trying to ascertain how the whole thing happened as the OP there was relatively light on details of how it had been achieved - in their case the monies were lifted several hours after the theft.

This one?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6507572/money-not-refunded-by-bank-after-i-was-mugged

Sea_Shell

eskbanker said:

DullGreyGuy said:

There was another case on here not that long ago but in that case the OP was assaulted and forced to unlock the banking apps for the thieves. Its probably worth using the search function to find that thread and read the outcome of it... it did go down several rabbit holes of posters trying to ascertain how the whole thing happened as the OP there was relatively light on details of how it had been achieved - in their case the monies were lifted several hours after the theft.

This one?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6507572/money-not-refunded-by-bank-after-i-was-mugged

Just reading back, I don't think that poster ever came back to the thread to update with an outcome.   

Always a tad annoying...shrug.


ETA, funny enough, their last post was in answer to one of mine.

HillStreetBlues

dcs34 said:

noh said:

anonymouse666 said:

eskbanker said:

anonymouse666 said:

3 weeks ago my phone was snatched whilst unlocked and 2 of my 3 banking apps were successfully accessed by the thief/thieves.

First things first, how were the thieves able to access bank apps and authorise transactions, even though the phone was unlocked?  What security did you have on the apps, e.g. biometrics, PINs, etc?

Do you have a police report?

Face ID on Halifax, pin on Monzo. 

Once they had my unlocked phone they had access to every bit of personal information about me ever. With that they were able to answer all the security questions asked after clicking “Forgotten your sign in details?” - on Halifax at least. Monzo I’m less sure so far. 

I guess they were also able to change my Face ID / phone pin once they were in and had access to things like Apple. 

I do have a police report. 

Every bit?
I have just tried the Halifax app on iPhone and to gain access they would either need to know your username or sort code and account number of a bank or savings account held with them. Was this recorded without any security on your phone?

Quite possibly stored on an email app with a 'Welcome to your new account' email. Sort codes can be reasonably possible to guess using local branch addresses. 

Downloaded statements would give account info.