Small Claims - Amazon

DullGreyGuy

Ergates said:

DullGreyGuy said:

A phone thats turned off will not have an overheating battery, there was a safe state where it could have been transported. 

Whilst, yes, an undamaged battery in an intact phone isn't *actually* a danger - the point remains that the OP was told to "get rid of it" in an email.

The question isn't "Was that necessary" the question is "was it reasonable for the OP to take this as an instruction from the retailer to dispose of the item".

Without seeing the entire email it's hard to say (OP said Amazon claimed the email also said to return it), but if someone told me I could  "just get rid" of something, I wouldn't assume they wanted it sent back to them - it's a fairly unambiguous phrase.  

And ultimately a judge will determine if it was reasonable or not, especially as Amazon isn't the seller in this case. 

I think the e-mail, which has been posted already, is less interesting but the full chat transcript would be. The OP could have suggested the "get rid of it" and the Amazon CS just mirrored the language. Were it me, I would have asked for confirmation, after all you cannot just blindly trust someone who's typing on the screen but thats where the judgement of what's reasonable or not is required. 

There is then the secondary issue of establishing the relationships and authorities in the case given Amazon was not the retailer. 

HillStreetBlues

ShaunJUK said:

I bought a phone which developed a fault and dangerously overheated. CS advised refund was processed and to "get rid of" the phone.

You wanted to return an item, and it seems a refund was agreed. They could either tell you to return item and refund would be processed or keep item, they chose for you to keep item and get rid of it.

The issue will have nothing to do with if you could or couldn't post the phone back once they stated to get rid of it, I've had refunds and told to keep item and also get rid of it.

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MattMattMattUK said:

How much was the phone and did you buy from Amazon, or was it a third-party seller?

Be aware that if you take legal action against Amazon then they will blacklist you which means you cannot order from them again and it will disable any Echo/Fire devices you have.

I don't think that's a given, handling of small claims goes beyond their algorithm and overseas CS. 

There has been at least 1 thread on this board where a poster had a positive response from simply writing to Amazon UK's head office address in London and with an off script issue like this a well written letter (that explains the issue to the point and without emotion, with no need to mention small claims at this point) may see a result. 

I think it's fair that if someone is old to "get rid" of an overheating phone most would take that to mean it should be disposed off, whilst I'd expect the company to advise it's disposed via the appropriate means, such as taking it to a local council rubbish/recycling centre, if something is overheating and a company says get rid of it I wouldn't want it sitting in my house just in case I'd been told the wrong thing. 

If I were the OP this ^^^ is what I'd be doing.

And I'd enclose the email and the chat transcript showing he was told to "get rid of it" - assuming that is what the email and transcript both show.

(Like other posters I think "get rid of it" is pretty clear and unambiguous.  I also son't think it's relevant that Amazon isn't the seller.  what's relevent is that Amazon gave the OP bad advice.  Not just poor, bad.)

lisyloo

I consider myself an intelligent person but I would not have know the battery was not dangerous.
I don't think a judge would expect "joe public" to know whether the battery was safe or not, so it seems reasonable to me to dispose of the items with written instructions to do so.

DullGreyGuy

lisyloo said:

I consider myself an intelligent person but I would not have know the battery was not dangerous.
I don't think a judge would expect "joe public" to know whether the battery was safe or not, so it seems reasonable to me to dispose of the items with written instructions to do so.

Would you have known what a "dangerously hot" phone is? Its not clear if the OP is meaning its at 55C so risk of burning skin if not in a case or 225C and so a risk of causing a fire. 

Playing a graphic heavy game whilst charging a phone can cause it to get to 45C or potentially a bit more which will feel uncomfortable to hold but isn't "dangerous". 

Even if the Amazon agent did tell them to throw the phone away it is based on the OP's analysis that it was dangerous (likely to cause harm or injury). It wouldn't be unexpected for the OP to be asked to evidence this statement else anyone could contact Amazon and say a glass item was delivered broken and point out that RM/Couriers will not carry consignments of broken glass if asked to return etc. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

DullGreyGuy said:

Even if the Amazon agent did tell them to throw the phone away it is based on the OP's analysis that it was dangerous (likely to cause harm or injury). It wouldn't be unexpected for the OP to be asked to evidence this statement else anyone could contact Amazon and say a glass item was delivered broken and point out that RM/Couriers will not carry consignments of broken glass if asked to return etc. 

I'm sure most companies would ask for more info, the issue is three fold, 1) Amazon CS is based overseas, no doubt in low wage countries, where staff are given a script and perhaps have an obligation to keep customers happy 2) Amazon has spent years offering a "have some money to go away" type of customer service. 3) Amazon is full of stuff made in China with no guarantee it complies with safety regulations, if I was buying from Currys, JL, etc I'd assume it's more likely than not the stock complies wit those regulations and is less of a safety risk, a random seller on Amazon who knows? 

It's easier for them just to refund customers rather than mess about asking for evidence, especially when an FBA seller will be picking up the tab! 

Ultimately the company should be the expert, most people trust Amazon and if a representative of Amazon says to "get rid" of something I think most people would follow that advice. 

Don't get me wrong they shouldn't but we live in a world where these companies are moulding consumers to be clueless so they can extract as much money from them so it shouldn't be surprising this is the result.   

lisyloo

DullGreyGuy said:

lisyloo said:

I consider myself an intelligent person but I would not have know the battery was not dangerous.
I don't think a judge would expect "joe public" to know whether the battery was safe or not, so it seems reasonable to me to dispose of the items with written instructions to do so.

Would you have known what a "dangerously hot" phone is? Its not clear if the OP is meaning its at 55C so risk of burning skin if not in a case or 225C and so a risk of causing a fire. 

Playing a graphic heavy game whilst charging a phone can cause it to get to 45C or potentially a bit more which will feel uncomfortable to hold but isn't "dangerous". 

Even if the Amazon agent did tell them to throw the phone away it is based on the OP's analysis that it was dangerous (likely to cause harm or injury). It wouldn't be unexpected for the OP to be asked to evidence this statement else anyone could contact Amazon and say a glass item was delivered broken and point out that RM/Couriers will not carry consignments of broken glass if asked to return etc. 

No, I don't have knowledge of the limits of phones, just common sense.
For example if it was hot to hold or showing a warning then I'd be concerned.
A county court judge would not expect any extra technical knowledge beyond what any reasonable person would do.

Agree anyone can say anything and Amazon have to deal with that but in this case there is proof Amazon instructed a disposal. Photos of broken glass do evidence that the buyer is not trying to gain a perfectly useable item. It comes down to what a reasonable person would do.
I was certainly not prepared to leave broken glass lying around my office or home whilst waiting for a response so I thought disposal (and photos) was a very sensible option.