My Employer has not passed on my PAYE to HMRC (nor my student loan repayments to Loan peopl).

Zombat5

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

hupik said:

Zombat5 said:

Ok it seems that HMRC have got in a complete muddle about this. Everything is done on emails and apps. She received an email initially saying that her tax had been updated so "please go online to check etc". Online the HMRC App said she owed two amounts of tax for 2022/23 and 2023/24 amounting to approx £5k. She then wrote to HMRC  (both NI and Tax depts) and attached copies of all her pay slips which showed all the deductions for NI and tax. She received a letter from the NI section saying that they accepted the evidence of payment so all was updated. However the tax dept (via the App) was insisting that the £5k was owing. She then phoned HMRC and questioned this and was told that it was down to her to "take her previous employer to a tribunal to get the money off him".
However......when she checked the App this evening it was saying that she had in fact paid x amount of tax for 2022/23 and 2023/24. She checked on HMRC's 'how much tax should I pay' calculator and it was exactly what the App is now saying she paid. Sorry to give you all a headache but anyway she is going to phone the tax office again on Thursday and get them to explain why they are asking for more tax when exactly the correct amount appears to have have been paid. She unfortunately failed to retain her P60s and the company still haven't provided her with a P45 even though she left about 5 months ago. She has requested copies of all of them again.
Even if HMRC give way on this however they should never have told her that she has to get the money off her previous employer when they must know full well that it is the PAYE employer who is responsible once he has made the deduction from the employee's wages. The dispute must be between the PAYE Employer and HMRC.
However I would like to know what the Law actually says. My accountant said she should ask HMRC to quote their legal basis for stating that in a case where the employer has withheld deductions then it is the employee's responsibility to pay HMRC (so paying tax twice) and then get the money back off the employer. This must surely be nonsense. Any constructive comments welcome.
Even if this does come out ok she's still got to chase up the student loan repayments and these have definitely not been passed on to the loan company by the employer.

I am VERY concerned this is a scam and has all the hallmarks of being one.

What is the email address used by HMRC to make contact with your daughter and what is the address she has written to?

Tend to agree.

Whether tax and NI has been paid is usually of no relevance, that's a matter between the employer and HMRC's debt collection department.

It's what had been deducted and reported under the Real Time Information system that counts.

So does that mean that, as an employer, if you deduct it but don't report it then that doesn't count? That would be a weird system surely. 

Bookworm105

Zombat5 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

hupik said:

Zombat5 said:

Ok it seems that HMRC have got in a complete muddle about this. Everything is done on emails and apps. She received an email initially saying that her tax had been updated so "please go online to check etc". Online the HMRC App said she owed two amounts of tax for 2022/23 and 2023/24 amounting to approx £5k. She then wrote to HMRC  (both NI and Tax depts) and attached copies of all her pay slips which showed all the deductions for NI and tax. She received a letter from the NI section saying that they accepted the evidence of payment so all was updated. However the tax dept (via the App) was insisting that the £5k was owing. She then phoned HMRC and questioned this and was told that it was down to her to "take her previous employer to a tribunal to get the money off him".
However......when she checked the App this evening it was saying that she had in fact paid x amount of tax for 2022/23 and 2023/24. She checked on HMRC's 'how much tax should I pay' calculator and it was exactly what the App is now saying she paid. Sorry to give you all a headache but anyway she is going to phone the tax office again on Thursday and get them to explain why they are asking for more tax when exactly the correct amount appears to have have been paid. She unfortunately failed to retain her P60s and the company still haven't provided her with a P45 even though she left about 5 months ago. She has requested copies of all of them again.
Even if HMRC give way on this however they should never have told her that she has to get the money off her previous employer when they must know full well that it is the PAYE employer who is responsible once he has made the deduction from the employee's wages. The dispute must be between the PAYE Employer and HMRC.
However I would like to know what the Law actually says. My accountant said she should ask HMRC to quote their legal basis for stating that in a case where the employer has withheld deductions then it is the employee's responsibility to pay HMRC (so paying tax twice) and then get the money back off the employer. This must surely be nonsense. Any constructive comments welcome.
Even if this does come out ok she's still got to chase up the student loan repayments and these have definitely not been passed on to the loan company by the employer.

I am VERY concerned this is a scam and has all the hallmarks of being one.

What is the email address used by HMRC to make contact with your daughter and what is the address she has written to?

Tend to agree.

Whether tax and NI has been paid is usually of no relevance, that's a matter between the employer and HMRC's debt collection department.

It's what had been deducted and reported under the Real Time Information system that counts.

So does that mean that, as an employer, if you deduct it but don't report it then that doesn't count? That would be a weird system surely. 

if they deduct but do not report then HMRC do not know "you" are a PAYE employee.
HMRC may thus think you are self employed and so come after you for tax as the first port of call

if you then establish that you are actually an employee, the matter becomes more serious and HMRC may regard it as a matter for their fraud dept to investigate your employer.

Failure to operate PAYE when required carries formal sanctions. example here:
No records? PAYE and penalties apply | ICAS

mybestattempt

If the HMRC app (which is effectively the HMRC personal account) now has the correct PAYE details for 2022/23 and 2023/24, then hopefully the situation will be resolved.

It strikes me as unusual, however, that HMRC would review an employee's personal tax liability for 2023/24 so soon after 5 April 2024.

Without sight of the redacted correspondence from HMRC, it difficult to understand exactly how and why the issue arose.

penners324

What's the employers paye reference?

It should be on the payslips. 

Sounds possible the company weren't reporting anything to HMRC. Or possibly she has a duplicate paye account.

Hopefully the latter.

The first 1 is illeagal and would be worth reporting to Companies House, HMRC & the police as fraud.

The latter is just asmin error by HMRCthat they can correct.

penners324

The latter is far more likely.

She should contact hmrc again, with the paye reference numbers and specifically ask if she has a duplicate record.

Zombat5

penners324 said:

The latter is far more likely.

She should contact hmrc again, with the paye reference numbers and specifically ask if she has a duplicate record.

She has already sent a a complete set of payslips for the tax years concerned to HMRC. Cannot see a PAYE reference on the payslip. She is phoning them again today and will find out more. Thanks for your input.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

You would make far more progress if you could establish exactly what she has been sent by HMRC.

It may be an error at HMRC's end.

To be honest I don't know how you can even know if the employer "has not passed on my PAYE to HMRC" as that is a matter between the employer and HMRC

It's what was reported to HMRC that is usually important for the employee

penners324

Have the pension contributions been paid to Nest?

Check their Nest account

penners324

The P60 will have the employer's PAYE reference numbers on it.

This far more likely a duplicate Hmrc record that Hmrc can and will correct than a huge fraud by the employer 

Zombat5

Update on its way in a couple of hours.