parking fine

freddiecider

Help needed please
i I have just received a parking fine through from Saba for railway parking. The letter says the driver of the car arrived in the morning and left later in the evening without paying for a ticket. 

However what was actually done was the driver dropped someone off at the station in the morning then left the car park and went to work in the car. Driver then returned in the evening to collect the person from the train station.  . 

The driver does something similar on several days of the week with the start time always being the same but the collection time sometimes different depending on what train the passenger catches.  

How do I appeal this as I know for certain the car was not parked there for that period of time and the driver was at work !! 

Gr1pr

Sounds like a classic case of double dipping, please google it 

Also study other SABA threads too, bearing in mind that there is no keeper liability on railway land 

freddiecider

What is a ‘classic case of double dipping’ ? 

Gr1pr

2 short visits, not the alleged single long visit claimed by SABA 

GOOGLE the term. , "double dipping parking"

DE_612183

have you appealed yet?

If you do so and use the terms Gr1Pr has advised they should cancel.

freddiecider

No I haven’t appealed yet. The letter came through today. 

I will appeal shortly. I tried to phone to explain but the no one answered for ages so I gave up. 

I am also a bit worried now as the driver has been doing drop off/ collection several times a week . I hope I don’t have a letter every time otherwise this is all going to be very time consuming !!!

Gr1pr

Read this from 8 years ago, so its nothing new, its a known flaw in ANPR technology 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5550336/double-dip-parking-list-of-cases

freddiecider

Amazing - thanks so much. 

So, in short, this ‘should’ be fairly straightforward to appeal? I do have footage of the car parked at the workplace although I’m not entirely sure how I can retrieve it in a save able way. 

It’s really irritating when you know you’ve done nothing wrong! 

Coupon-mad

You don't phone up parking operators.

Just appeal each one online, as registered keeper - and NOT SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING OF COURSE - saying it's an ANPR failure (double dip) and stating that they must immediately check for the orphan images because this was 2 short visits, one in the morning and a return at night by the driver, who will not be named. 

Search the forum for:

double dip ANPR orphan images

Really EASY to kill off each rogue PCN.  But stop driving into that site. DO NOT ENTER.

Wait on street on any single or double yellow line. Always use the street when picking up or setting down passengers.  Obviously not on a bus stop, crossing, corner nor on double reds.

Picking up & setting down passengers is what yellow lines on-street are there for.  Did you know that's what yellow lines are for?  It's one of the allowed exemptions.

LDast

Whilst the actual error by SABA of not doing a manual quality control check of  the ANPR images as required by the BPA CoP at 21.5a(d) is the appeal point you are discussing, it is far easier if the appeal is made on the basis that the driver is unknown and there is no keeper liability.

Hopefully the OP hasn't dobbed themselves in it as they almost did by trying to talk to SABA by revealing the identity of the driver. A simple appeal with the following (only adding the railway station name) would likely stop them dead in their tracks or do so at POPLA stage, where the double dip argument would be introduced:

I am the registered keeper. SABA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, SABA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because [RAILWAY STATION] is not 'relevant land'.

If [RAILWAY STATION] wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Railway Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because SABA is not [RAILWAY STATION] and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for SABA's own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and SABA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable. SABA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

freddiecider

Gosh I am a bit confused now . 

So I should appeal initially on the basis of the railway land issue etc?

should I mention ‘the driver’ and ‘the driver’s journeys too or not? Based on the double dip. 

If I’m honest, I just want to be sure I don’t have to pay the fine as the driver did not park in that car park all day as is inferred by the letter. 

Thanks for all your help everyone. What an incredibly helpful thread!