Do I have a claim for incorrect band?

dchurch24

Hi,

I live in a 2 bed flat in a block that consists of 12 flats in total. I purchased the flat 3 years ago.

The block is located behind several larger houses - ie. some 3 bed detached, some 4 bed.

I've recently discovered that the houses in front of the flats are also band C, despite being much bigger properties, and as detached houses, higher value than the flats behind them.

There are 4 block of flats in total. All flats are the exact same size, with the exact same views apart from the first block where the flats on the 2nd and 3rd floors will have a sea view (now obscured by unfinished and abandoned building works).

Two of the flats that have a sea view in that block are band "B", the rest are "C".

This leads me to believe that the valuations were simply a "drive by", or provided by an Estate Agent by postcode alone at the time of the implementation of council tax and not based on actual value.

The value of the flats, as far as I can ascertain, were below 40,000 when purchased new in 1981/82 (the records only go back as far as 1995 - but some were sold at that time, and were in the mid to low 40s).  My grandmother purchased one in 1991 and paid 38,000, although I have no record of this other than my (and my mother's) memory.

I have used the Nationwide price checked and it says that the properties (the flats) would have been worth £33,240 in 1991, putting them firmly in Band A.

So, in all, it seems as though the entire block of flats, with the exception of two in the first block, are in the incorrect band and that 2 people in the first block have successfully challenged the banding and had it reduced to band B.

I have tried to contact those in those flats, but they never seem to be in.

I don't want to make a claim and have those two moved up to a C if I'm wrong, but am I right in assuming that everything is pointing in the right direction?

If so, what evidence can I submit in order to challenge the band?

lincroft1710

In many parts of the country 1995 prices were about 25% lower than 1991, so "mid to low 40s" could indicate mid 50s in 1991. 


Houses in the same band, NW property price index and memory/hearsay evidence of a 1991 sale price will not be accepted by the VOA. 1981/2 prices won't help either. The Band B flats may be an error or may have been reduced because of being on a high floor, you can check the banding history on the govt website. Apart from the 2 Band Bs, the fact that there are 46 flats in Band C and these have either not been challenged or have been unsuccessfully challenged over the past 31 years does not help your case.


As 1991 sales are not in the public domain, suggest you look for 1970s to 1990s similar size privately built flats in the area in a lower band and use these as a reason to ask the VOA to review your band

dchurch24

Thanks for the reply, sadly, these are pretty much the only flats around for miles, and these were built in 1981/2. 
Finding similar properties in the area from before this time is not possible.

This is the S. East, so the max difference between 95 and 91 would be around 10% from what I can glean.

That said, even a 25% difference would still put these in the band B category. I have asked my mother again today, and she is adamant that my grandmother paid £38,000 for hers in 1991.

That memory aside, I have found a sale in 1995 of £39,000, assuming a 25% increase (at maximum) back to 1991, that would make the price £48,750 - still a band B, not C.

I'm thinking that these flats are/were retirement flats, and as such, many of the occupants may be unaware that the band can be challenged, and that may be a reason for why they haven't been.

It seems remarkably unfair that these flats are charged at the same rate as a 3 bed detached house with private garden sitting just yards away.

lincroft1710

The bands of the houses sound as if they are too low.


Where is your evidence that 1995 prices are only 10% lower than 1991? If 1995 prices were 25% below 1991 then a 1995 sale at £39,000 would actually suggest a 1991 value of £52,000 (25% = £13,000, so £52,000 minus £13,000 = £39,000) I would agree borderline.


As CT bills for many, many years have had details about how to challenge your CT band, your theory doesn't really hold water. I'm ex VOA and plenty of CT payers of pensionable challenged their bands.


I think the only thing you can do is refer to the 2 Band B flats, and if their bands are in fact incorrect so be it. You've got nothing else really that is likely to persuade the VOA not to give you a generic "your band is correct" response.

dchurch24

My "evidence" was based on picking a selection of houses, then using RightMove to find when they'd been sold as far back as I could get them (all to 1995), and calculating the average difference. I collected the lot into a MySQL DB, so limiting that to 1995 was quite straightforward.
I had about 100 in a 20 mile radius, so in the main, somewhat anecdotal, but the average difference between '91 and '95 was under 10%, I'd expect to see that replicated with a larger selection (all properties were 2 bed properties, so at the lower end of value), and I also remember our own property value from that time, as before when interest rates went through the roof in the late 80s - the drop was lower than the national average.

The £39,000 property (in 1995) was one of the "sea view" flats (i.e. the top level, not one of the band B ones), that also come with loft space, so you'd expect that to be higher in value than the lower floors with have neither loft space or a sea view.

I guess, I could just go for it and hope. Nothing to lose, but I'd feel pretty bad if the two that were in Band B were raised to Band C because of something I've done.

>> As CT bills for many, many years have had details about how to challenge your CT band, your theory doesn't really hold water. I'm ex VOA and plenty of CT payers of pensionable challenged their bands.

Fair enough, it was guess as to why nobody else had challenged it, was all...unless of course, there have been two that have (the two that are now Band B ).

lincroft1710

Rightmove calculations are not reliable. The chances are that out of 48 flats it is likely that.at least one has sold in 1991 and the VOA will have details of this sale.

Regarding your grandmother's flat did your mother not keep any paperwork after your grandmother passed?

As I said in a previous post, you can check the banding history of the Band B properties, which may give you more evidence to back up your reason for a band review.

There is an argument that flats above the 1st floor are less valuable than ground and 1st floor flats, even in blocks with a lift.

FlorayG

Honestly the only thing you can do is try it. There are 2 band C bungalows in my close, both are larger than my band D and my bungalow was below the band D threshold when sold in 1991. So I appealed and was told no, those Band C have had extensions since they were valued ( proving how unfair the tax is) and I'm at the far end of the close which apparently makes my home worth more (for council tax purposes, also a subjective judgement) than the ones near the street.
If anyone in your block had made a successful appeal then ALL the flats in the block would have been re-assessed, so they are in a lower band for original reasons; try to find out what the reason is
Your council aren't going to increase your band I would think, so I would get the evidence and just try it if I were you

lincroft1710

FlorayG said:

Honestly the only thing you can do is try it. There are 2 band C bungalows in my close, both are larger than my band D and my bungalow was below the band D threshold when sold in 1991. So I appealed and was told no,

Why was your appeal rejected when there was a 1991 sale at below the Band D minimum? Was the bungalow in a state of disrepair or was it a repossession sale?
 
those Band C have had extensions since they were valued ( proving how unfair the tax is)

If the extensions were carried out by the current owner after CT came into force then CT legislation does not allow the bands to be increased until after the next sale

 and I'm at the far end of the close which apparently makes my home worth more (for council tax purposes, also a subjective judgement) than the ones near the street.

I would doubt there is evidence to back up this (as you say) subjective claim

If anyone in your block had made a successful appeal then ALL the flats in the block would have been re-assessed,

Not necessarily, in the early days of CT there was no programme of revising bands of nearby similar dwellings following a band reduction

so they are in a lower band for original reasons; try to find out what the reason is
Your council aren't going to increase your band I would think, so I would get the evidence and just try it if I were you

Councils don't deal with CT banding, it is the VOA (Eng and Wales) the Assessor (Scot)