Lease Car, UKPC Ignoring Transfer of Liability, have Served Debt Collection to VWFS

axcx

I have searched the forums, but have struggled to find anything directly the same as this issue, or sufficient enough for me to draw conclusions. I have previously successfully appealed these invoices in the past but have not had this issue specifically before.

Summary:

• I work at a hospital and park in the Disabled bays, with my Blue Badge. On one day n Jan, the badge slipped, hence a ticket.
• It is a lease hire car under VWFS (SEAT). I did not respond to the windscreen notice, rather waiting until VWFS sent the NTK, then UKPC send the NTH.
• Unfortunately the original NTK did not reach me, and now I know VWFS did send the expected transfer of liability, but this was ignored by UKPC.
• UKPC sent them a Final Notice, which VWFS sent to me and I DID receive. The again sent transfer of liability. I realised at this time, UKPC chose not to send me a NTH as they should have done. Note I now know the original NTK sent to VWFS was outside the 56 days per POFA.
• Unfortunately, by the time I received the Final Notice notice from VWFS, any appeal date had passed.

I have been in touch with VWFS who have been helpful, however:

• They have indeed now received the debt collection threat, and they say it seems UKPC 'have not accepted the transfer of liability' and VWFS' usual practice is to pay it, but only charge me £30 and they absorb the excess. Note UKPC have not said they have not accepted transfer of liability, they have merely ignored it, deliberately.

My question is: Shall specifically say to VWFS NOT to pay the debt and to notify the debt collectors of my details so it comes to me directly and I can subsequently follow the guidance on this forum, as is my right?

Presumably the debt collectors would be happy with that, regardless of UKPC ignoring the transfer of liability?

Or should I just go with VWFS offer? I really do not want to do this!

I also have a complaint open with my employer (the NHS Trust) and they are in touch with UKPC apparently. But I need a way forward fairly quickly, so VWFS do not get further caught up in this and pass on any further stupid charges to me that cannot be easily avoided.

I hope that's clear...thank you!

Half_way

Are you familiar with the NHS parking principles for staff patients and visitors?, if not google it

 What are the terms and conditions for the lease vehicle exactly word for word?

 You seem to have your head round some of this when you call it an invoice and not a fine,  it is important not to call it a fine or penalty or any other such when dealign with hire/lease companies and to remind them that it is from an un regulated private company

axcx

Half_way said:

Are you familiar with the NHS parking principles for staff patients and visitors?, if not google it

 What are the terms and conditions for the lease vehicle exactly word for word?

 You seem to have your head round some of this when you call it an invoice and not a fine,  it is important not to call it a fine or penalty or any other such when dealign with hire/lease companies and to remind them that it is from an un regulated private company

Thank you. Yes I'm familiar with the NHS principles and I'm following that up now, but the immediate issue is what to do with VWFS. My terms (originally back in 2021) make no mention of parking 'fines' or otherwise. However, there are other resources on VWFS 
https://customer.vwfs.co.uk/content/dam/bluelabel/valid/www-vwfs-co-uk/documents/self-serve-documents/vw-self-serve-docs/VW%20CH%20drivers%20guide.pdfthat states:

Fines and charges
You are responsible for the payment of any fines or charges relating to your vehicle, e.g. parking fines, fixed penalty notices, traffic camera offences, congestion charges, etc. If we are required to pay a fine on your behalf, we will recharge you or your company along with an administration fee. We are legally obliged to provide any details that we have available (such as driver details), on demand from the police, to help identify the driver of any vehicle

and at

https://customer.vwfs.co.uk/existing-customers/During-your-agreement.html

Contract Hire agreements:
If you have a Contract Hire agreement Volkswagen Financial Services (VWFS) will receive the fine as the registered owner and the course of action depends on the fine type, detailed below:
Representable fines:
VWFS will nominate the customer to pay for, or appeal the fine by sharing their details with the relevant authority. VWFS will only let a fine get so far before we pay it, if this occurs there is a £25 administration fee. These fines include:
·        Police fines – Speeding
·        Council fines – Box junctions, comply with a sign and bus planes other than TFL
·        Parking
·        Dart Charge
Payable Fines:
VWFS must pay the fine when it is received and charge back to the hirer, via Direct Debit. The hirer will receive an invoice. These fines include:
·        TFL – Transport for London bus lanes
·        Congestion – more information on congestion charges
·        EFlow – Toll roads in Dublin, Ireland
·        Merseyflow / Railway Bylaws / Humber Bridge
The hirer may appeal any of the above fines, to do so you will need to contact us.

(Note I can't post direct links yet)

axcx

I was thinking something like below, to VWFS:

Many thanks, [name of person at VWFS], I appreciate the response.
If you do anything, I would request you pass my details on to the Debt Collection company, clearly stating you have already clearly stated to UKPC you have transferred liability and you are no longer part of the process.

My request would be for you NOT to pay anything. This is not a fine, or valid charge. It is a request for payment by an unregulated private company, and that request is invalid under POFA 2012 and the professional trade body (BPA) who's Code of Practice they claim to follow.

You will see from your own Notice to Keeper that it was issued over the time allowed under POFA (56 days in total from the date of the claimed windscreen ticket). Even if they continue to claim you are liable, you are not, as the initial NTK was invalid.

I would also draw your attention to the understanding as I believe, between the BVRLA and BPA, whereby liability should be passed to the hirer, to allow me my rights under POFA 2012. If you pay these opportunistic charges, UKPC win easily and my rights are removed.

Regardless, this debt collection notice is also wrong - their client does not have adequate evidence to win this in court. The letter is a frivolous threat.

Yours sincerely, etc. etc.

Is that way off the mark?

Coupon-mad

I think you should email UKPC and copy in VWFS and ADMIT TO DRIVING and include your postal address and a copy of the transfer of liability that VWFS sent you:

appealmoreinfo@ukparkingcontrol.com

Tell UKPC that they have not only been sent a ToL from the keeper (copied into this email) but also, despite not bothering to issue a Notice to Hirer, they hereby have confirmation that the driver was:

YOUR NAME
YOUR ADDRESS.

As such they and their agents must NOT contact the keeper VWFS again and if they think they have a cause of action, either:

a). reissue the Notice by post to the above address, so the driver has their right to appeal (the correct next step) or

b)  crack on and pass the case to their legal team to pursue the driver (above).

Either way, to continue to pursue the keeper would be a breach of the BPA CoP and a breach of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 which says:

"221.Paragraph 4 provides that the creditor has a right to recover unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the relevant vehicle if the conditions set out in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 are satisfied. The creditor is not obliged to pursue unpaid parking charges through this scheme and may seek to do so through other means but they may not use the scheme provided for here to secure double recovery of unpaid parking charges (paragraph 4(6)), nor will they have the right to pursue the keeper, as opposed to the driver, of the vehicle where they have sufficient details of the driver’s identity. [...] The creditor may not make a claim against the keeper of a vehicle for more than the amount of the unpaid parking related charges as they stood when the notice to the driver was issued (paragraph 4(5))."

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/notes/division/5/1/3

Finish by saying:

- UKPC must treat this as a formal complaint, because UKPC ignored the ToL and wrote again to VWFS, instead of issuing a NTH and UKPC have unlawfully given the Debt Collector the wrong party's name (VWFS) when they already had the above name and address of the hirer (who they now know was driving).

- Cease and desist writing to VWFS.

- Bring on the claim and don't add the pathetic fake DRA fee because no Judge will allow that and (surely) nor will the DLUHC because they are not taken in by the rogue parking industry.

axcx

Thank you @Coupon-mad

I did as you said first thing this morning. I also chased my employer (NHS Trust).

My employer then replied saying UKPC had just cancelled the ticket. More likely it was spelling out the details to the NHS Trust and them taking UKPC to task, than the email as above, as it would have been a fast turnaround if it was that. But I may never know.

Regardless, I'm very grateful for your help and I hope this post can help others.

For reference, the complaint spelled out what UKPC had not done per POFA and the BPA code of practice. It also referenced the NHS Parking Guidelines as mentioned above, reminding the Trust that they are directly responsible for the actions of the parking operator, including when they act inappropriately. I also sent the evidence from VWFS separately, however the Trust did not use this in their 'discussions' with UKPC, it seems the detailed description was enough.

I will help others in my Trust to complain in the same way if needed, and I would hope they drop UKPC like a stone. I can dream at least.

Coupon-mad

Wonderful news. Nicely done!