Work private pension after father deceased

JHUG_2

@MartinLewisMoneyShowitv1 our mum died Sept 2020 and 2 months later, our father died in November 2030. His private pension with his company he has worked for during his working life advised we could not benefit from hos pension as payments or a lump sum on his death as beneficiaries as trustees of the estate (his daughters) as it was only available to his spouse and as she was deceased, the pension dies with him.
he would of been fuming with this as he worked all his life and died at 70 years old. 

My mum died at 69 years old.
is there anything we can do? 

Marcon

JHUG_2 said:

@MartinLewisMoneyShowitv1 our mum died Sept 2020 and 2 months later, our father died in November 2030. His private pension with his company he has worked for during his working life advised we could not benefit from hos pension as payments or a lump sum on his death as beneficiaries as trustees of the estate (his daughters) as it was only available to his spouse and as she was deceased, the pension dies with him.
he would of been fuming with this as he worked all his life and died at 70 years old. 

My mum died at 69 years old.
is there anything we can do? 

From what you've said, it sounds as if your father was in something known as a 'defined benefit' pension scheme.

The rules of such schemes set out who can benefit on the death of the member - usually only the spouse and any 'eligible children' (the latter would normally qualify for a pension only while they are in full time education or training and up to a maximum age of 23 or thereabouts; sometimes older offspring can qualify if they are permanently dependent on the member because they are suffering from some form of permanent disability).

Unfortunately the scheme is correct: as your father's spouse has predeceased him, and he has no 'eligible children', that is the end of the matter. Even if the scheme had something called a 'guarantee period', this rarely exceeds five years - and if your dad was 70 when he died, it sounds as if he would have had at least five years of pension payments before he died.

I'm very sorry, but that's the position and there is nothing to be done. 

DullGreyGuy

Was this a pension in payment or not?
Presumably it was a DB pension?
Still paid by the former employer or converted to an annuity? 

Have you a copy of the scheme rules and what it states? 

Many pensions only payout to the spouse or children under 21 in full time education. Ultimately thats how they guarantee a lifetime payment, those that die younger fund those that live much longer. 

Keep_pedalling

Are you sure he would be fuming? Most people who are in DB type pensions (assuming this is what he was receiving) are aware of how they work. They guarantee payment for life with a continuing but reduced payment to a surviving spouse (also for life). For some this could mean 30-40 years of payment for others just a few years. 

Other types of pensions can be inherited but they don’t come with such lifetime guarantees and you generally have to pay a lot more into them, which is why DB pensions are still seen as the gold standard by many. 

Tommyjw

Keep_pedalling said:

Are you sure he would be fuming? Most people who are in DB type pensions (assuming this is what he was receiving) are aware of how they work. They guarantee payment for life with a continuing but reduced payment to a surviving spouse (also for life). For some this could mean 30-40 years of payment for others just a few years. 

Other types of pensions can be inherited but they don’t come with such lifetime guarantees and you generally have to pay a lot more into them, which is why DB pensions are still seen as the gold standard by many. 

I'd disagree on your first sentence, possibly DB pensions now (given their rarity and quite well known benefits of having them) it likely is people are better versed in the benefits, and also then the downsides of them largely being the death benefits 

Back when DB was standard, from my experience on working on many of these older DB schemes, most people had absolutely no clue.

OPs father, like a lot of the people I have engaged with on older DB Schemes, are likely unfortunately one of I imagine a majority who just never really looked into their pension and therefore never planned for anything to balance it out. Lack of death benefits being a big thing, the amount of pensioners or their beneficiaries I speak to who have no ides the lack of death benefit is staggering

dunstonh

he would of been fuming with this as he worked all his life and died at 70 years old. 

To be fair, i doubt he would have been.
a) he probably knew this as it is well known with defined benefit schemes.
b) he may not have actually paid that much for the pension. Indeed, it may have been non-contributory.
c) defined benefit schemes are the gold standard of pensions.  They have weaker death benefits for children but for the pension holder and spouse, they get such better terms than a defined contribution pension (which does have better death benefits).