Bank Rules and Regulations

DASUT

I am new to the forum and wonder if anyone on here has any idea how to overcome so called Bank Rules. A very close relative recently lost his wife. His wife cared for her mother who lived with them.
My relative who is in his 70's now cares for his mother in law but doesn't have power of attorney. He has put her into a respite care home so that he can sort out his house to sell so that he can buy a property that is more suitable for her care. Since she has been in the care home her mental health has deteriorated. His mother in law has over the funds allowed for council/government support so she pays for her care BUT all liquid cash is diminishing very quickly. She does have funds in savings accounts BUT because she isn't said to be of a sound mind the bank won't allow her son in law to transfer funds into her current account to both pay for her care costs and also contribute towards the suitable property.
He believes that living with him and using visiting/live in care OK it won't be easy but is what his late wife would have wished for and she will be far happier than the care home, where he believes she is confused and very unhappy and going down hill rapidly. 
So he spoke to the bank and they said he should bring her to the bank to organise the transfer of funds, setting up direct debit/standing orders etc. So he did this when his mother in law was having a good day and she could actually remember her account numbers and pin numbers but unfortunately when she got to the bank she got confused and anxious. Even though her son in law had all of the care home paperwork the bank refused to take any action, even though spent well over an hour elevating the issue to so called toothless managers.
Seems to me as though procedures and computer systems now rule over commonsense. If this isn't sorted out very quickly she will be unable to pay for her care home so will have to move back to the son in laws current property that is in the process of being sold. Problem is that Social Services has deemed the property unsuitable as there is no downstairs space for her to sleep and no downstairs toilet and stairs are too steep.
Easy to overcome but inflexible banks rules and lack of commonsense seem to be impossible to overcome.
Any ideas other than expensive extremely lengthy legal process that still doesn't guarantee anything? 
  

DullGreyGuy

Whilst I am sure its frustrating for the relative its perfectly common sense that banks cannot allow someone to bring a random person that is clearly not in a fit state of mind to be making decisions and allow the person that come with them to empty their savings accounts. 

In this case I am sure they have best intentions in mind but there are plenty of others that do abuse older relatives and it'd be an easy way to make a grab of future inheritance and deny your siblings their share if you could simply get the bank give you 100% of it before the elderly relative dies. 

PRAISETHESUN

You won't get the bank to budge on this. It's unfortunate, but to me commonsense says that the bank is smart to not act on the instructions of someone of unsound mind. It's in their interest to not only protect the vulnerable customer, but also themselves in the event of a scam or something. Ultimately without a POA, then the bank can't really do anything, and you need to go through the proper process to get a deputy appointed to help manage their affairs, see here: 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/looking-after-people/managing-affairs-for-someone-else/#h-who-can-make-decisions-when-someone-loses-mental-capacity-and-there-s-no-power-of-attorney

https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy

GeoffTF

The OP does not appear to have any claim against the bank. If the MIL still has mental capacity, it might be possible for her to grant a Power of Attorney. Otherwise, the council will have to sort it out.

DASUT

PRAISETHESUN Very many thanks I think the Deputy route is the way to go as whilst her son in law is frustrated and very worried about future scenario's he is also still mourning sudden death of his wife and everyway he turns from long delay getting a simple probate, through inefficiencies at care homes, hospital and the list goes on.
As for the Council and social services they haven't got a clue it seems to be in the too difficult basket.
Son in law also has plenty of other people who can assist in getting the Deputy application put together. Again many thanks for the advice.  

DASUT

DullGreyGuy thanks but not a random person both the Mum in law and the son in law are well known to the bank and the staff but there is a document that can't be signed, so the next step in the chain isn't possible. Seems there is a path that needs exploring however as explained by PRAISETHESUN. 

steven141

There is the option of applying for guardianship but she will need to be signed off by a doctor as  it being of sound mind. The only other option is power of attorney that I know of. 

DASUT

GeoffTF The council are fully aware of the problem having had Social Services and others involved when trying to get care support but they are under manned and haven't been able to offer any support so son in law has actually had to carry out care that is not appropriate. The hospital where she ended up for a number of weeks shortly after entering the care home due to an infection and couldn't achieve anything with social services regarding after care so son in law had to organise the return to the respite care home which is good but not a clinical care home. Hence son in law's frustration and annoyance at the barriers that are quite honestly making him ill and he had a heart attack just over a year ago.

DASUT

steve141 she is only of sound mind when she is with someone that she knows well as soon as confronted by someone that she doesn't know well and trusts she goes into herself so Power of Attorney won't work and even with doctor saying she is of sound mind which doctor at the hospital did for her to be released from hospital to the respite care home. This wasn't good enough for the bank as they conducted their own interview. She could remarkably remember her account number but not her pin because she hasn't used the latter for quite a while. So have advised my close relative to consult with his legal guy to look at the Deputy route. Many thanks

GeoffTF

DASUT said:

GeoffTF The council are fully aware of the problem having had Social Services and others involved when trying to get care support but they are under manned and haven't been able to offer any support so son in law has actually had to carry out care that is not appropriate. The hospital where she ended up for a number of weeks shortly after entering the care home due to an infection and couldn't achieve anything with social services regarding after care so son in law had to organise the return to the respite care home which is good but not a clinical care home. Hence son in law's frustration and annoyance at the barriers that are quite honestly making him ill and he had a heart attack just over a year ago.

This is not a forum for advice on how to deal with Social Services, and I am not qualified to give it. Perhaps it is worth contacting the mental health charities, or in the last resort a solicitor. Nonetheless, you are right that social services is under resourced, and they are not likely to do much if they believe that someone else is going to do their job for them. Perhaps the son in law has to say that he cannot offer any further help for health reasons. That is not advice though.

GeoffTF

DASUT said:

steve141 she is only of sound mind when she is with someone that she knows well as soon as confronted by someone that she doesn't know well and trusts she goes into herself so Power of Attorney won't work and even with doctor saying she is of sound mind which doctor at the hospital did for her to be released from hospital to the respite care home. This wasn't good enough for the bank as they conducted their own interview. She could remarkably remember her account number but not her pin because she hasn't used the latter for quite a while. So have advised my close relative to consult with his legal guy to look at the Deputy route. Many thanks

It will not be good enough for the bank, but it might be enough for a solicitor to register a POA, which will be good enough for the bank. As I understand it, the solicitor only has to be satisfied that she wishes to grant the POA and is of sound mind. I expect you would be able to get a free initial consultation.