Car insurance claim - magistrate court

raddy59

I had an "unusual incident" 12 months ago. My NCD was not affected as it was the other driver at fault. Now i have received a letter asking for further details as the other driver says I was partially to blame and is refusing to refund my insurance co's costs. They are asking me for details (again) and my available dates for court! 
The incident - I was driving very slowly down a 2 lane road (one lane each direction). My road ahead was clear. I had travelled less than 20 metres, doing 12mph max,  when a car hit my car obliquely from the other side of the road - the other car was travelling in the same direction as me i.e. against the flow of his lane.
He says I could have taken action to prevent the collision, or at least mitigate the damage.
He says he has a witness that I had "undertaken" him! (How can you undertake a car that is not where it is supposed to be!) In my understanding of the highway code, a driver changing lanes has a duty to ensure it is safe to change lane and not cause any driver in the destination lane to slow down or deviate (Highway Code 113 I think - but this applies to multi lane highways)
I don't want to go to court over this - but if I dont LV - the  insurance company says it will go down as 50/50 and will affect my future premiums.
Any advice/observations much appreciated

Arunmor

I'm struggling with this bit:- (How can you undertake a car that is not where it is supposed to be!)

Was this urban or rural?  Just trying to visualise.

Anyway the bit that jumps out to me is LV haven't just gone for the 50/50 option which suggests they think his claim is a crock of sh..!

Perhaps take a diagram with, you want to be really clear,  with no flannel when you get to court.  See my first sentence again.

raddy59

"How can you undertake a car that is not where it is supposed to be!" - like, driving the  wrong way down a 2 lane road - but point taken. Suburban street, getting busy as schools just let out, so kids messing about on the pavement, onward coming cars in the opposite lane carrying kids. As I said I was driving real slow

DullGreyGuy

Magistrate Court deals with minor criminal offences whereas insurance is a civil law matter so goes to the County Court.

Would really need to see the third party's full version of events before passing any comments. One drivers word against another with no witnesses are typically difficult to resolve but sometimes the TP are simply at fault even in their own version of events. 

You say you'd only travelled 20 meters so what happened before that? Maybe you were parked at the side of the road, the TP was overtaking your stationary vehicle and you pulled away without making proper observations?

raddy59

DullGreyGuy : "You say you'd only travelled 20 meters so what happened before that? Maybe you were parked at the side of the road, the TP was overtaking your stationary vehicle and you pulled away without making proper observations"? Possible, as I was parked waiting to pick up my wife. The road ahead was clear. There were no cars behind me as i moved off (confirmed as there were no cars behind me after the impact) and I checked my side mirror before proceeding. There was oncoming traffic in the other lane, so I expect he would have to drive pretty quick to avoid oncoming traffic and pull in ahead of me (in which case I would have seen him) I was parked 80 metres away from the top of the road. He pulled parallel to the rear of my vehicle, when my son saw him in the rear driver side window, after I had travelled c15 metres.  (Maybe he took a wide turn misjudging my speed as he was attempting to enter his driveway on my side of the road?)

DullGreyGuy

raddy59 said:

DullGreyGuy : "You say you'd only travelled 20 meters so what happened before that? Maybe you were parked at the side of the road, the TP was overtaking your stationary vehicle and you pulled away without making proper observations"? Possible, as I was parked waiting to pick up my wife. The road ahead was clear. There were no cars behind me as i moved off (confirmed as there were no cars behind me after the impact) and I checked my side mirror before proceeding. There was oncoming traffic in the other lane, so I expect he would have to drive pretty quick to avoid oncoming traffic and pull in ahead of me (in which case I would have seen him) I was 80 metres away from the top of the road. He pulled parallel to the rear of my vehicle, when my son saw him in the rear driver side window, after I had travelled c15 metres.  (Maybe he took a wide turn misjudging my speed as he was attempting to enter his driveway on my side of the road?)

If there were no cars behind you when you pulled out and then seconds later he is parallel to you... where did they come from?

Sounds like you were parked at the side of the road, he has correctly moved out to pass your parked vehicle with sufficient time to do so before the oncoming traffic causes a problem. You haven't seen him in your blind spot and have pulled away whilst they are overtaking you meaning they are unable to safely complete their manouver before the oncoming vehicle is too close and so they've had to try to cut in to avoid a head on collision. 

Certainly need to get their version of events but the above is my guess and there are certainly aspects here that could point to a split liability situation. 

raddy59

"....moved out to pass your parked vehicle with sufficient time to do so before the oncoming traffic causes a problem"  in which case I would surely have seen him almost immediately parallel to me? The crash was 20 metres from where I started.

.....meaning they are unable to safely complete their manoeuvre before the oncoming vehicle is too close and so they've had to try to cut in to avoid a head on collision", or he could have gently braked and safely got behind me as the lane was clear? Who knows - if that had been the case that's what I would have done. Had I not slammed my brakes on instinctively when my son shouted, perhaps he would never have hit me. Who knows?  (Can I get a copy of his statement I wonder?)

DullGreyGuy

But as you say, you braked too so him gently braking won't have enabled him to slot behind any more. 

Your insurers should ask for a copy of their description, they may share it or paraphrase it to you 

Mildly_Miffed

One interpretation of your description could be that this was in slow-moving traffic, you were trying to stop somebody from "pushing in" , and you closed them out a bit too vehemently.

You mention Highway Code rule 113, but you can't pick and choose - rule 147 applies, too.

Ultimately, you have two different versions of the same situation, each has just as much or as little weight as the other. One version may or may not be more credible.

Evidence such as photos of where the vehicles were, and any dashcam footage, would help. But remember that, quite often, dashcam footage shows that people who think they're innocent parties are complicit in causing a collision.

If the insurers between them can't agree that one version is codswallop, then it'll go split liability.

DullGreyGuy

Mildly_Miffed said:

One interpretation of your description could be that this was in slow-moving traffic, you were trying to stop somebody from "pushing in" , and you closed them out a bit too vehemently.

The OP has stated they were parked at the side of the road and pulled away, not in slow moving traffic. 

bluelad1927

raddy59 said:

DullGreyGuy : "You say you'd only travelled 20 meters so what happened before that? Maybe you were parked at the side of the road, the TP was overtaking your stationary vehicle and you pulled away without making proper observations"? Possible, as I was parked waiting to pick up my wife. The road ahead was clear. There were no cars behind me as i moved off (confirmed as there were no cars behind me after the impact) and I checked my side mirror before proceeding. There was oncoming traffic in the other lane, so I expect he would have to drive pretty quick to avoid oncoming traffic and pull in ahead of me (in which case I would have seen him) I was parked 80 metres away from the top of the road. He pulled parallel to the rear of my vehicle, when my son saw him in the rear driver side window, after I had travelled c15 metres.  (Maybe he took a wide turn misjudging my speed as he was attempting to enter his driveway on my side of the road?)

Are you saying you still don't know where the third party came from.  That does make quite a bit of a difference 

Eg.  have they pulled out from a parking space on the other side of the road