Azzure issued PCN with wrong location, 2 months later get letter from ZZPS with same wrong location

lachezza62

Is it legal for a PCN to state one location even though it is the wrong location and for that location then to be changed by another company, who even then still give wrong information?

In January received PCN invoice from Azzure stating son had parked in car park but location on the invoice is the wrong location as we were not there, son appealed it on the basis that he had not parked in the area they stated on their invoice, furthermore son did not park nor leave his car as he had come to pick me up.  No signs saying no entry private property and the only signs says Private car park clamping...the rest is obscured by graffiti.  Then a month later he gets letter from ZZPS who again give the wrong location for where the car park is situated - the location they given is 3 miles away. 

Then yesterday he got an email from Parking Admin Centre who state that their client has "confirmed the full address as...." however these people have given a completely different address to that on the PCN and in effect have issued a new PCN as the amount they say needs to be paid is £100 whereas ZZPS stated £170.  

Furthermore the address given by Parking Admin is a block of flats who have separate parking away from the car park and the car park is identified with a different number.  

The only proof that they have given is two pictures showing my son driving into the car park and 7 minutes later driving out - there is no evidence that the car was parked as it wasn't, my son never left the car or waited in any bay, he waited in the middle of the car park where there are no bays and where you wouldn't park as it would block others from leaving also each bay has a guard pole (I don't know the correct name) for which a key is needed to lower in order for you to park 

We are not going to pay for something he did not do.  If it had signs saying no unauthorised entry, private property then yes hands up he would be at fault but no such signs exist.  The only signs are Private Car Park, unauthorised vehicles will be clamped.  Can someone point me to where I can find a template that I can use to dispute this please, if you could it would be very much appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Who are Azzure?  A private parking firm?  New one on me.

Please show us a pic of the front and back of the Notice to Keeper (all data and QR codes covered, but ALL dates showing please).

Can someone point me to where I can find a template that I can use to dispute this please, if you could it would be very much appreciated.

My signature tells you where to click to read the NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST thread.

GrannyKate

Azure Parking Ltd not Azzure I think

Half_way

Do not attempt to guess as to who was driving, never use terms like I drove, he parked, she, brother, uncle, son, daughter, wife etc 

lachezza62

Thanks for your responses, much appreciated.  Short of not wanting to sound like a thicko I have read the Newbies stuff and done a search for my problem but cannot find anything that remotely covers it.  So basically:

1.  Azzure Parking Ltd issued PCN Invoice (03.01.24) citing No Parking 
2.  Azzure Parking Ltd give a location address for "offence" which is 3 miles away.
3.  Son emailed Azzure asking for proof of him parking and the "proof" that they've got is a pic of his car driving in and driving out - no pic of car parked (as he didn't park).
4.  Got letter from ZZPS (28.03.24) citing wrong location address.
5.  Got email from Parking Admin Centre (14.05.2024) where they have put a different location address, however I know the area and the number that they have given for the car park actually belongs to a block of council flats who have their own car park underneath the flats.  The post code that they have given is for a residential street.
6.  The car park does not say Private no entry.
7.  Letter from Parking Admin states that appeal rejected - no appeal was made, we just asked for proof of car parked in the area where they stated on their invoice.  They further stated "our client has confirmed full address as Car Park at 5 Clapton Square..." when the invoice stated Clapton Park - both different areas and three miles apart.  They also go on to cite a case of Parking Eye v Beavis which does not relate to this invoice as there was no parking contravention. 

So what I really want to know is should he/we send an appeal to POPLA and is it legal that they can issue a PCN invoice for one address and then four months later come with a different address albeit it's still wrong..

Coupon-mad

You can't try POPLA.

Your stage is fully covered in post 4 of the NEWBIES thread.  But please show us a pic of the front and back of the Notice to Keeper (all data and QR codes covered, but ALL dates showing please).

LDast

lachezza62 said:

Is it legal for a PCN to state one location even though it is the wrong location and for that location then to be changed by another company, who even then still give wrong information?

There is nothing "illegal" about it. They can allege that it was on the moon. However, if they don't know who was the driver (although it sounds like that detail was blabbed already) that error could have been used to prevent the keeper from being liable as, unless they have been told who was driving, could not then be liable.

lachezza62 said:

In January received PCN invoice from Azzure stating son had parked in car park

No it didn't stay that your son had parked his car. They have no idea who actually drove and parked the car. However, they may now know who it was if it was blabbed to them, inadvertently to otherwise. The PCN was sent to the registered keeper of the car. Anyone can drive that car with the permission of the owner and as long as they hold their own third part liability insurance.

lachezza62 said:

...son appealed it on the basis that he had not parked in the area they stated on their invoice

So, in his appeal, did your son admit to being the driver? Did he use words like "...I drove" or did he appeal as the keeper using words like "...the driver drove"?

lachezza62 said:

We are not going to pay for something he did not do.  If it had signs saying no unauthorised entry, private property then yes hands up he would be at fault but no such signs exist.  

We appreciate your defiance and agree that you shouldn't have to pay these scammers. However, if the drivers identity has been revealed, you have made the mountain you have to climb significantly higher and steeper.

Until you shows us both sides of the original NtK that was sent, redacting only the personal details, VRM and PCN number but making sure you leave all dates visible and tell us exactly what your son put in the original appeal, it is going to be difficult to give useful advice except to have a thorough read of the Newbies/FAQ thread.

You should get up to date photos of the entrance signs and any other signage at the site.

Umkomaas

Did Parking Admin Centre provide you with a POPLA verification code?  They do state in their letter dated just 3 days ago (14/05/24) that you can appeal to POPLA. 

lachezza62

LDast said:

lachezza62 said:

Is it legal for a PCN to state one location even though it is the wrong location and for that location then to be changed by another company, who even then still give wrong information?

There is nothing "illegal" about it. They can allege that it was on the moon. However, if they don't know who was the driver (although it sounds like that detail was blabbed already) that error could have been used to prevent the keeper from being liable as, unless they have been told who was driving, could not then be liable.

lachezza62 said:

In January received PCN invoice from Azzure stating son had parked in car park

No it didn't stay that your son had parked his car. They have no idea who actually drove and parked the car. However, they may now know who it was if it was blabbed to them, inadvertently to otherwise. The PCN was sent to the registered keeper of the car. Anyone can drive that car with the permission of the owner and as long as they hold their own third part liability insurance.

lachezza62 said:

...son appealed it on the basis that he had not parked in the area they stated on their invoice

So, in his appeal, did your son admit to being the driver? Did he use words like "...I drove" or did he appeal as the keeper using words like "...the driver drove"?

lachezza62 said:

We are not going to pay for something he did not do.  If it had signs saying no unauthorised entry, private property then yes hands up he would be at fault but no such signs exist.  

We appreciate your defiance and agree that you shouldn't have to pay these scammers. However, if the drivers identity has been revealed, you have made the mountain you have to climb significantly higher and steeper.

Until you shows us both sides of the original NtK that was sent, redacting only the personal details, VRM and PCN number but making sure you leave all dates visible and tell us exactly what your son put in the original appeal, it is going to be difficult to give useful advice except to have a thorough read of the Newbies/FAQ thread.

You should get up to date photos of the entrance signs and any other signage at the site.

Thanks for your responses.  No my son did not admit to being the driver and I'm attaching the email he sent to them.  He didn't get a PCN invoice on his car, it was sent by letter which I have attached in my earlier query to obviously they got his details as registered keeper from DVLA.

LDast

Borderline admittance in this bit: "...please show me evidence that my car was in Clapton Park as I know I was never in Clapton Park."

Still need to see both sides of the NtK with all dates showing.

Coupon-mad

He didn't get a PCN invoice on his car, it was sent by letter which I have attached in my earlier query.

Where? We need to see that NTK please.