Transfer to agency

Agencytransfer

What are my rights in this situation? Can my employer do this please? Thank you

Marcon

Agencytransfer said:

I have worked for my employer for 7-8 months and have a casual worker contract till the end of next month. They have written to say they are transferring all those who work in this role to a recruitment agency who will engage us going forward in the same position. I don't want to work for a recruitment agency, and the email says if that's the case I should withdraw from my role. It doesn't say anything about any kind of pay for the period, or any notice period.

What are my rights in this situation? Can my employer do this please?

Thank you

What does your contract say? That's where you'll find your 'rights' set out, including any notice period.

What's your objection to working for an agency, assuming the terms and conditions are the same as your current short-term casual contract?

Brie

What the "employer" is doing is transferring the administration of the short term contracts from themselves to someone else to manage.  

Sometimes this is done to stop anyone from having 2 years continuous service and thus gaining certain rights.  Sometimes it's just done as a cost cutting measure, less admin = less staff to do the admin.  

Marcon

Brie said:

What the "employer" is doing is transferring the administration of the short term contracts from themselves to someone else to manage.  

Sometimes this is done to stop anyone from having 2 years continuous service and thus gaining certain rights.  

Not where it's a TUPE transfer.  Suggesting people 'withdraw from their role', as here, is often designed to evade that.

General_Grant

 Agencytransfer said:

I have worked for my employer for 7-8 months and have a casual worker contract till the end of next month. They have written to say they are transferring all those who work in this role to a recruitment agency who will engage us going forward in the same position. I don't want to work for a recruitment agency, and the email says if that's the case I should withdraw from my role. It doesn't say anything about any kind of pay for the period, or any notice period.

What are my rights in this situation? Can my employer do this please?

Thank you

So you know your contract with your current employer is currently due to terminate at the end of June.
That means you have been given notice that your employment will end then.

Of course, the contract could have been extended but they are choosing not to do so.
They are simply saying you can continue working in the role but this will be by way of a contract with a named employment agency.

If you don't want to work through the agency, don't go to work after the end of June.

Your current employer would need to pay you for the time up until your last day and also for any accrued but not taken holiday.

The above is on the assumption that they are not saying you would be working for the agency before your current contract would otherwise be due to end.  If they are saying you will only be employed direct up to, say, the end of May, then let us know.

LinLui

Only your employer can tell you if they will terminate the contract earlier than the end of June,  so you need to ask them. But if you don't want to transfer your employment to the agency or for the agency to have your details, then you need to inform them of that within the timescale because the agency will be needing to set up payroll etc for those who will be working for them. Even though your contract is temporary,  it can still be terminated with notice before that,  either by the employer or by you. If no longer period is mentioned,  then the notice period is a week. 

If you have been paid rolled up holiday pay in your wages (which is commonly not lawful although a few employers still do it) then you have no accrued holiday - technically you can take the holiday but you won't be paid as you've already been paid for it. 

LinLui

Agencytransfer said:

LinLui said:

Only your employer can tell you if they will terminate the contract earlier than the end of June,  so you need to ask them. But if you don't want to transfer your employment to the agency or for the agency to have your details, then you need to inform them of that within the timescale because the agency will be needing to set up payroll etc for those who will be working for them. Even though your contract is temporary,  it can still be terminated with notice before that,  either by the employer or by you. If no longer period is mentioned,  then the notice period is a week. 

If you have been paid rolled up holiday pay in your wages (which is commonly not lawful although a few employers still do it) then you have no accrued holiday - technically you can take the holiday but you won't be paid as you've already been paid for it. 

Have you got a link for that please? Probably needs looking in to

Agencytransfer said:

LinLui said:

Only your employer can tell you if they will terminate the contract earlier than the end of June,  so you need to ask them. But if you don't want to transfer your employment to the agency or for the agency to have your details, then you need to inform them of that within the timescale because the agency will be needing to set up payroll etc for those who will be working for them. Even though your contract is temporary,  it can still be terminated with notice before that,  either by the employer or by you. If no longer period is mentioned,  then the notice period is a week. 

If you have been paid rolled up holiday pay in your wages (which is commonly not lawful although a few employers still do it) then you have no accrued holiday - technically you can take the holiday but you won't be paid as you've already been paid for it. 

Have you got a link for that please? Probably needs looking in to

Drat, apologies... this was the case,  but the law changed on 1st April and I missed it. 
https://www.acas.org.uk/irregular-hours-and-part-year-workers/rolled-up-holiday-pay#:~:text='Rolled-up' holiday pay,use rolled-up holiday pay.

It is still not lawful for many people, but part year or irregular hours workers are now excluded. Which is crap because its now easy to get around giving people holiday (as opposed to holiday pay).

LinLui

Agencytransfer said:

LinLui said:

Agencytransfer said:

LinLui said:

Only your employer can tell you if they will terminate the contract earlier than the end of June,  so you need to ask them. But if you don't want to transfer your employment to the agency or for the agency to have your details, then you need to inform them of that within the timescale because the agency will be needing to set up payroll etc for those who will be working for them. Even though your contract is temporary,  it can still be terminated with notice before that,  either by the employer or by you. If no longer period is mentioned,  then the notice period is a week. 

If you have been paid rolled up holiday pay in your wages (which is commonly not lawful although a few employers still do it) then you have no accrued holiday - technically you can take the holiday but you won't be paid as you've already been paid for it. 

Have you got a link for that please? Probably needs looking in to

Agencytransfer said:

LinLui said:

Only your employer can tell you if they will terminate the contract earlier than the end of June,  so you need to ask them. But if you don't want to transfer your employment to the agency or for the agency to have your details, then you need to inform them of that within the timescale because the agency will be needing to set up payroll etc for those who will be working for them. Even though your contract is temporary,  it can still be terminated with notice before that,  either by the employer or by you. If no longer period is mentioned,  then the notice period is a week. 

If you have been paid rolled up holiday pay in your wages (which is commonly not lawful although a few employers still do it) then you have no accrued holiday - technically you can take the holiday but you won't be paid as you've already been paid for it. 

Have you got a link for that please? Probably needs looking in to

Drat, apologies... this was the case,  but the law changed on 1st April and I missed it. 

It is still not lawful for many people, but part year or irregular hours workers are now excluded. Which is crap because it's now easy to get around giving people holiday (as opposed to holiday pay).

I'm guessing as a casual worker I'm classed as an 'irregular hours worker'. My employer did this also before 1st April. Was it definitely illegal then? It's happened since I started 7-8 months ago.

There are a few exceptions,  but they probably wouldn't apply. So yes,  probably unlawful (there's a difference) but I wouldn't get caught up in it.  There's precious little you can do about it anyway,  and given you were paid,  there is no gain for you. I'd focus on getting another job since you don't want to work for the agency. 

That said, is there some reason why you are so set against that? Because unless you are confident that you will find work elsewhere, it seems counterintuitive to pack in a job if you need one. 

General_Grant

Regarding "rolled up holiday pay":
it was not lawful to "roll up" the pay in the hourly rate - that is it was not lawful to simply pay a flat hourly rate which included the holiday element included in it.

However, what the OP's current employer has been doing is different.  They are paying an hourly rate and separately accounting for the holiday.  So in theory they could say they have paid for the hours worked and the extra separate amount is for holiday being taken that week (even if it didn't seem like a holiday!).  That was lawful.

EnPointe

Agencytransfer said:

General_Grant said:

 Agencytransfer said:

I have worked for my employer for 7-8 months and have a casual worker contract till the end of next month. They have written to say they are transferring all those who work in this role to a recruitment agency who will engage us going forward in the same position. I don't want to work for a recruitment agency, and the email says if that's the case I should withdraw from my role. It doesn't say anything about any kind of pay for the period, or any notice period.

What are my rights in this situation? Can my employer do this please?

Thank you

So you know your contract with your current employer is currently due to terminate at the end of June.
That means you have been given notice that your employment will end then.

Of course, the contract could have been extended but they are choosing not to do so.
They are simply saying you can continue working in the role but this will be by way of a contract with a named employment agency.

If you don't want to work through the agency, don't go to work after the end of June.

Your current employer would need to pay you for the time up until your last day and also for any accrued but not taken holiday.

The above is on the assumption that they are not saying you would be working for the agency before your current contract would otherwise be due to end.  If they are saying you will only be employed direct up to, say, the end of May, then let us know.

I had an informal interview scheduled for early June to have my contract extended. Then this email came out of the blue. I don't want to work through the agency, but I also don't want the agency having my details so it seems like I should 'withdraw from my role'. Does this have any negative effects please? As far as I can tell, I get no severance or redundancy pay etc. either way and should be paid for my time regardless. How does it work with accrued and not taken holiday please? My hourly rate (minimum wage) gets a holiday pay percentage added to each hour worked and is paid along with my basic pay so I'm not sure if that means I don't accrue holiday as such.

The email says that if we don't want to join the agency to let them know by the end of May and they will end the contract - but it doesn't say when (immediately, upon the end of may, or upon the end of the original contract). I think part of the problem is there is so much uncertainty due to the lack of detail.

 this is what happens when  the employer for a role changes 

it is somewhat irrelevant  that   the role is currnetly a casual  one ( and presumably  zero contracted hours) 

in TUPE situations the same advice is given , if you do not wish to employed by the new  employer for that role , either  find a  role that is staying  with the current employerr and  negotiate a start date before the cnange over  or you are deemed to have resigned WEF the change over 

EnPointe

Agencytransfer said:

EnPointe said:

Agencytransfer said:

General_Grant said:

 Agencytransfer said:

I have worked for my employer for 7-8 months and have a casual worker contract till the end of next month. They have written to say they are transferring all those who work in this role to a recruitment agency who will engage us going forward in the same position. I don't want to work for a recruitment agency, and the email says if that's the case I should withdraw from my role. It doesn't say anything about any kind of pay for the period, or any notice period.

What are my rights in this situation? Can my employer do this please?

Thank you

So you know your contract with your current employer is currently due to terminate at the end of June.
That means you have been given notice that your employment will end then.

Of course, the contract could have been extended but they are choosing not to do so.
They are simply saying you can continue working in the role but this will be by way of a contract with a named employment agency.

If you don't want to work through the agency, don't go to work after the end of June.

Your current employer would need to pay you for the time up until your last day and also for any accrued but not taken holiday.

The above is on the assumption that they are not saying you would be working for the agency before your current contract would otherwise be due to end.  If they are saying you will only be employed direct up to, say, the end of May, then let us know.

I had an informal interview scheduled for early June to have my contract extended. Then this email came out of the blue. I don't want to work through the agency, but I also don't want the agency having my details so it seems like I should 'withdraw from my role'. Does this have any negative effects please? As far as I can tell, I get no severance or redundancy pay etc. either way and should be paid for my time regardless. How does it work with accrued and not taken holiday please? My hourly rate (minimum wage) gets a holiday pay percentage added to each hour worked and is paid along with my basic pay so I'm not sure if that means I don't accrue holiday as such.

The email says that if we don't want to join the agency to let them know by the end of May and they will end the contract - but it doesn't say when (immediately, upon the end of may, or upon the end of the original contract). I think part of the problem is there is so much uncertainty due to the lack of detail.

 this is what happens when  the employer for a role changes 

it is somewhat irrelevant  that   the role is currnetly a casual  one ( and presumably  zero contracted hours) 

in TUPE situations the same advice is given , if you do not wish to employed by the new  employer for that role , either  find a  role that is staying  with the current employerr and  negotiate a start date before the cnange over  or you are deemed to have resigned WEF the change over 

They seem to be doing it the other way around - they've said unless they hear from us otherwise, we will be transferred. So we are only resigning WEF the changeover if we specifically ask to. If not, they'll transfer the data without even really requesting permission - they are deeming silence to mean permission.

yes, this is generally what happens   unless you change roles to one not subject to transfer or actively decline  to be transferred  and  therefore find yourself without a position in the original organisation you will be  transferred to the new employer