Need help with a faulty TV, out of warranty but manufacturer has authorised an uplift with the selle

FactoryFaultOLED18

Okell said:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

Okell said:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

... By contrast, I called Panasonic back immediately after 2 hours of hold with JL and within 10 mins, the Panasonic rep confirmed that the uplift code is for the full value of the original sale, and that the code should clearly call out to JL that if JL refund me the sale value, Panasonic will then refund JL the sale value. The Panasonic rep also then said that if JL continue to mess me around, they'll look at the replacement or refund directly. Within 10 mins, I'd got more value from the Panasonic rep than over 2 hours with several JL reps.

Anyway, I'm giving JL 48 hours and if its going nowhere, I'll deal with Panasonic directly.

Perhaps I'm being uncharitable but it seems to me that Panasonic might be the ones messing you around unnecessarily.

You bought the set 6 years and 4 months ago.  I'm going to assume that by the time you alerted JL to a problem it was already more than 6 years after purchase.  See here:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

... when I first had this problem I was advised to contact the seller, not Panasonic and when I did and they got my order, and saw the date, they shut down all conversation due to it being out of warranty...

I suspect JL might have shut down all conversation not because it was out of warranty, but because it was more than 6 years after purchase and therefore they have no liabilty to you under either consumer or contract law.

I'm not sure if Panasonic understand this or not, but I suspect that's the main reason JL aren't interested.

If Panasonic think - as the manufacturer - that you are entiled to a full refund because they produced a faulty TV, then they ought to be refunding you.  After more than 6 years it's got nothing to do with JL, and I don't see how Panasonic could persuade them to think otherwise when even a court wouldn't be able to do so...

I assume that Panasonic have some sort of arrangement with their retailers, for this situation though, even outside of regular or extended warranty.

The Panasonic CS rep seemed pretty calm and assured that the process is completely normal and double checked the uplift authorisation detail, my purchase date, the retailer and so on. It should be a straightforward replacement/refund situation that JL take initial responsibility for, then claim/have that money taken from Panasonic to cover.

I guess I'll see what comes back from JL in the next day or so.

I'm not sure it matters what arrangement there might be between Panasonic and JL.

If JL were only notified of the issue more than 6 months years after purchase, they're under no legal obligation to you to do anything.  You can't sue them after more than 6 years and a court can't make them do anything.  I suspect the Panasonic rep you are talking to either doesn't know that or doesn't understand it.  (Or is deliberately playing you...)

I'd be asking Panasonic why they can't refund me directly, and if they won't, how will they compel JL to refund me?  JL can turn round to you and say "We aren't legally obliged to refund you anything after more than 6 years".

Even if there is an agreement between P and JL you aren't a party to it so can't enforce it.  Panasonic would have to do so - just making you wait longer and longer...

Out of curiosity - when did you actually notify JL of the problem.  Was it within 6 years of purchase or not?

That's the thing, Panasonic have already said that if JL continue to cause problems, they'll arrange the replacement/refund directly. They even suggested that I start that process, without waiting for JL and their 24-48 wait time but I declined just because I could see two attempts to get the replacement/refund causing even more problems.

I notified JL of the problem about 4 weeks ago, well outside the 6 years.

screech_78

I can assure you that JL will not receive a refund for the television from Panasonic after 6 years. I am 100% on that. A debit agreement is in place with almost all suppliers and yes, whilst an uplift number would give JL the cost price back (not sale price) that is usually only extended for about 2/3 years. 

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

DullGreyGuy

screech_78 said:

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

I very much doubt anything is being discussed with the legal team, having issued on JL for my own issues with them none of their communications had an ounce of legal qualifications in their draftings and about 5 days after I issued proceeding their panel solicitors immediately reached out and offered full settlement. If the law firm was going to do that the legal team would avoid the issuing fee and statutory interest by paying up on the LBA. 

FactoryFaultOLED18

screech_78 said:

I can assure you that JL will not receive a refund for the television from Panasonic after 6 years. I am 100% on that. A debit agreement is in place with almost all suppliers and yes, whilst an uplift number would give JL the cost price back (not sale price) that is usually only extended for about 2/3 years. 

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

Is it not possible that exceptional circumstance, like TVs being faulty due to manufacturing problems at the factory, play a part?

It all seems quite odd. Panasonic again today confirmed that they'd be prepared to refund the full sale price of the TV, £1799, if JL cause problems beyond tomorrow morning. Your statement seems to imply that hardware post-6 years is an instant "no thanks" from all parties, yet not from Panasonic in this instance.

DullGreyGuy

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

screech_78 said:

I can assure you that JL will not receive a refund for the television from Panasonic after 6 years. I am 100% on that. A debit agreement is in place with almost all suppliers and yes, whilst an uplift number would give JL the cost price back (not sale price) that is usually only extended for about 2/3 years. 

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

Is it not possible that exceptional circumstance, like TVs being faulty due to manufacturing problems at the factory, play a part?

It all seems quite odd. Panasonic again today confirmed that they'd be prepared to refund the full sale price of the TV, £1799, if JL cause problems beyond tomorrow morning. Your statement seems to imply that hardware post-6 years is an instant "no thanks" from all parties, yet not from Panasonic in this instance.

Large scale B2B relationships are complex and not many outside will know the exact terms between JL and the Panasonic UK distributor.  Ultimately it's of no relevance to you what those terms are, you have an offer to deal directly if you dont have an appropriate resolution in a couple days time. 

In my short time in retail we had all sorts of arrangements from us paying a pittance for something but we had no right of return but when paying £1 an item for something you then retail for £20-£30 you dont mind. Some things had a return rate in the contract so if over 15% were faulty we got reimbursement but nothing if under 15%. The items we were paying the most for proportionally, often electronics, we could return the majority of faulty items. Was always disappointing that the staff shop was full of cheapo clothes with a button missing or pack that was supposed to be 50% white 50% black but came back as all black etc and furniture  rather than discounted TVs

Okell

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

Okell said:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

Okell said:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

... By contrast, I called Panasonic back immediately after 2 hours of hold with JL and within 10 mins, the Panasonic rep confirmed that the uplift code is for the full value of the original sale, and that the code should clearly call out to JL that if JL refund me the sale value, Panasonic will then refund JL the sale value. The Panasonic rep also then said that if JL continue to mess me around, they'll look at the replacement or refund directly. Within 10 mins, I'd got more value from the Panasonic rep than over 2 hours with several JL reps.

Anyway, I'm giving JL 48 hours and if its going nowhere, I'll deal with Panasonic directly.

Perhaps I'm being uncharitable but it seems to me that Panasonic might be the ones messing you around unnecessarily.

You bought the set 6 years and 4 months ago.  I'm going to assume that by the time you alerted JL to a problem it was already more than 6 years after purchase.  See here:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

... when I first had this problem I was advised to contact the seller, not Panasonic and when I did and they got my order, and saw the date, they shut down all conversation due to it being out of warranty...

I suspect JL might have shut down all conversation not because it was out of warranty, but because it was more than 6 years after purchase and therefore they have no liabilty to you under either consumer or contract law.

I'm not sure if Panasonic understand this or not, but I suspect that's the main reason JL aren't interested.

If Panasonic think - as the manufacturer - that you are entiled to a full refund because they produced a faulty TV, then they ought to be refunding you.  After more than 6 years it's got nothing to do with JL, and I don't see how Panasonic could persuade them to think otherwise when even a court wouldn't be able to do so...

I assume that Panasonic have some sort of arrangement with their retailers, for this situation though, even outside of regular or extended warranty.

The Panasonic CS rep seemed pretty calm and assured that the process is completely normal and double checked the uplift authorisation detail, my purchase date, the retailer and so on. It should be a straightforward replacement/refund situation that JL take initial responsibility for, then claim/have that money taken from Panasonic to cover.

I guess I'll see what comes back from JL in the next day or so.

I'm not sure it matters what arrangement there might be between Panasonic and JL.

If JL were only notified of the issue more than 6 months years after purchase, they're under no legal obligation to you to do anything.  You can't sue them after more than 6 years and a court can't make them do anything.  I suspect the Panasonic rep you are talking to either doesn't know that or doesn't understand it.  (Or is deliberately playing you...)

I'd be asking Panasonic why they can't refund me directly, and if they won't, how will they compel JL to refund me?  JL can turn round to you and say "We aren't legally obliged to refund you anything after more than 6 years".

Even if there is an agreement between P and JL you aren't a party to it so can't enforce it.  Panasonic would have to do so - just making you wait longer and longer...

Out of curiosity - when did you actually notify JL of the problem.  Was it within 6 years of purchase or not?

That's the thing, Panasonic have already said that if JL continue to cause problems, they'll arrange the replacement/refund directly. They even suggested that I start that process, without waiting for JL and their 24-48 wait time but I declined just because I could see two attempts to get the replacement/refund causing even more problems.

I notified JL of the problem about 4 weeks ago, well outside the 6 years.

Look  -  if you were outside 6 years I am pretty much 99% certain that you aren't going to get anything out of JL  - for the simple reason that they are not legally obliged to do anything.

If I were you I'd go back to Panasonic and tell them that rather than wait for JL to faff around any longer, you'd like to take them up on their very generous offer to refund you directly and to cut JL out of the loop.

In the unlikely event that JL also refund you so you get refunded twice, you simply pay one of them back.

(I'm not certain but I believe @screech_78 is a former or current JL employee - so I think they have a pretty good idea how this works...)

Okell

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

screech_78 said:

I can assure you that JL will not receive a refund for the television from Panasonic after 6 years. I am 100% on that. A debit agreement is in place with almost all suppliers and yes, whilst an uplift number would give JL the cost price back (not sale price) that is usually only extended for about 2/3 years. 

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

... Panasonic again today confirmed that they'd be prepared to refund the full sale price of the TV, £1799, if JL cause problems beyond tomorrow morning. Your statement seems to imply that hardware post-6 years is an instant "no thanks" from all parties, yet not from Panasonic in this instance.

Tell Panasonic "YES!!!  -  I'll take it!"

I suspect Panasonic - or the people you've been dealing with - are not aware of the significance of the purchase being outside the statutory limitation period, meaning that you have no legal rights against anybody in respect of it.  In particular JL owe you nothing.

But if Panasonic want to pay you a full refund as a gesture of goodwill, don't turn them down again.

Let us know how it turns out.  I'm very interested in knowing if either Panasonic or JL pay up

screech_78

DullGreyGuy said:

screech_78 said:

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

I very much doubt anything is being discussed with the legal team, having issued on JL for my own issues with them none of their communications had an ounce of legal qualifications in their draftings and about 5 days after I issued proceeding their panel solicitors immediately reached out and offered full settlement. If the law firm was going to do that the legal team would avoid the issuing fee and statutory interest by paying up on the LBA. 

I didn’t say that the legal team would contact the OP, however there are advisors on hand for things like this to be discussed with and to check the legal position. If they settled with you, it’s because they thought there was less than 75% chance of them winning. 

screech_78

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

screech_78 said:

I can assure you that JL will not receive a refund for the television from Panasonic after 6 years. I am 100% on that. A debit agreement is in place with almost all suppliers and yes, whilst an uplift number would give JL the cost price back (not sale price) that is usually only extended for about 2/3 years. 

I’d wait and see what they come back with. I would imagine this is being discussed with their legal team. I’d be surprised if you’re offered a replacement but you never know. 

Is it not possible that exceptional circumstance, like TVs being faulty due to manufacturing problems at the factory, play a part?

It all seems quite odd. Panasonic again today confirmed that they'd be prepared to refund the full sale price of the TV, £1799, if JL cause problems beyond tomorrow morning. Your statement seems to imply that hardware post-6 years is an instant "no thanks" from all parties, yet not from Panasonic in this instance.

Anything is possible, of course. But a manufacturer providing a full refund to a retailer after 6 years is unheard of. 

Do let us know the outcome though, as it’s an interesting one. 

Jumblebumble

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

Okell said:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

Okell said:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

... By contrast, I called Panasonic back immediately after 2 hours of hold with JL and within 10 mins, the Panasonic rep confirmed that the uplift code is for the full value of the original sale, and that the code should clearly call out to JL that if JL refund me the sale value, Panasonic will then refund JL the sale value. The Panasonic rep also then said that if JL continue to mess me around, they'll look at the replacement or refund directly. Within 10 mins, I'd got more value from the Panasonic rep than over 2 hours with several JL reps.

Anyway, I'm giving JL 48 hours and if its going nowhere, I'll deal with Panasonic directly.

Perhaps I'm being uncharitable but it seems to me that Panasonic might be the ones messing you around unnecessarily.

You bought the set 6 years and 4 months ago.  I'm going to assume that by the time you alerted JL to a problem it was already more than 6 years after purchase.  See here:

FactoryFaultOLED18 said:

... when I first had this problem I was advised to contact the seller, not Panasonic and when I did and they got my order, and saw the date, they shut down all conversation due to it being out of warranty...

I suspect JL might have shut down all conversation not because it was out of warranty, but because it was more than 6 years after purchase and therefore they have no liabilty to you under either consumer or contract law.

I'm not sure if Panasonic understand this or not, but I suspect that's the main reason JL aren't interested.

If Panasonic think - as the manufacturer - that you are entiled to a full refund because they produced a faulty TV, then they ought to be refunding you.  After more than 6 years it's got nothing to do with JL, and I don't see how Panasonic could persuade them to think otherwise when even a court wouldn't be able to do so...

I assume that Panasonic have some sort of arrangement with their retailers, for this situation though, even outside of regular or extended warranty.

The Panasonic CS rep seemed pretty calm and assured that the process is completely normal and double checked the uplift authorisation detail, my purchase date, the retailer and so on. It should be a straightforward replacement/refund situation that JL take initial responsibility for, then claim/have that money taken from Panasonic to cover.

I guess I'll see what comes back from JL in the next day or so.

I'm not sure it matters what arrangement there might be between Panasonic and JL.

If JL were only notified of the issue more than 6 months years after purchase, they're under no legal obligation to you to do anything.  You can't sue them after more than 6 years and a court can't make them do anything.  I suspect the Panasonic rep you are talking to either doesn't know that or doesn't understand it.  (Or is deliberately playing you...)

I'd be asking Panasonic why they can't refund me directly, and if they won't, how will they compel JL to refund me?  JL can turn round to you and say "We aren't legally obliged to refund you anything after more than 6 years".

Even if there is an agreement between P and JL you aren't a party to it so can't enforce it.  Panasonic would have to do so - just making you wait longer and longer...

Out of curiosity - when did you actually notify JL of the problem.  Was it within 6 years of purchase or not?

That's the thing, Panasonic have already said that if JL continue to cause problems, they'll arrange the replacement/refund directly. They even suggested that I start that process, without waiting for JL and their 24-48 wait time but I declined just because I could see two attempts to get the replacement/refund causing even more problems.

I notified JL of the problem about 4 weeks ago, well outside the 6 years.

Hmm
Complicated method of resolving
Let Panasonic refend JL and continue to put up with  with JL's messing you around and risk Panasonic claiming they have refunded JL but JL bot denys this has happened and so the saga goes on.
Simple Method of resolving
Tell JL to put your claim on hold
Take up Panasonic on their offer.