Retailer asking for independent report in line with SAD FART

Tessmaz

Hi,

my husband purchased a designer handbag as a birthday gift for me in February 2023, the bag is for occasional wear and not every day use.  The magnetic close clasp has broken therefore bag not fit for purpose and I dont feel it has lasted a reasonable time.  I contacted the retailer Flannels for repair who have advised I need to provide an independent report to confirm if faulty? is this something i have to do and is it a reasonable request? This will cost me more than the purchase itself and how would i know who to contact for an independent report if they were approved etc  
where do I stand with such request under consumer law?

I have since also contacted the manufacturer 

eskbanker

Yes, you do have rights against the retailer under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but, after six months, the onus is on you to demonstrate that the product was inherently faulty, such as a manufacturing flaw present at the time of purchase, which will often entail an independent report.

Mark_d

You are claiming that the product was not of satisfactory quality so it is entirely reasonable that you need to evidence this.  Though if you are correct, then you might be able to claim back the cost of the independent report

Aylesbury_Duck

As above, it's a reasonable request and since the retailer has asked, you need to comply if you want to take it further.

You don't need anyone particularly 'approved' or qualified.  Perhaps an independent jeweller would be a good place to try, because the clasp might be similar to some jewellery/watch clasps.

sheramber

You need to prove there is an inherent fault and it was not broken by user error.

Okell

@Tessmaz -  I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate here and be out of line with what other posters say.  Weigh up what I say for yourself…

Tessmaz said:

... I contacted the retailer Flannels for repair who have advised I need to provide an independent report to confirm if faulty?...

I don’t think what Flannels have told you is necessarily legally correct in that I don’t think you have to have an independent report to have a successful legal claim.

My understanding is that because you would be the claimant, then you are required to “prove” your case.  In a civil case this would mean that you simply have to persuade a judge that it is “more likely that not” that the handbag clasp is faulty – and that it is not caused by misuse or accidental damage.

Obviously if you had an independent report from some “appropriate” expert that it was faulty, this would make your task easier.  But there’s nothing to stop you and your husband giving evidence yourselves.

I don’t know how much your husband paid* for the handbag (and he’s the person who would be claiming because he bought it) but he can argue that he would reasonably expect a handbag that cost £nnn* to last longer than 14 months -  or whatever it is.  And you can also give evidence that you have only worn it nn times and that you have looked after it well and have not misused it etc.

I’d suggest that it was then up to Flannels to “prove” that you were wrong and that in fact it was perfectly OK for a designer handbag that they had sold for £nnn only to last for 14 months** – or to prove that you were lying and that you had misused it or accidentally damaged it.

After hearing both sides it would be up to a judge to decide whether you or Flannels had “proven” their case and who should win.  Depending upon who is the more convincing, you might still win without an independent report… or you might lose because you don’t have one…

You’d be better off with some sort of independent report but you might have to be imaginative to find one.  Try a shop selling designer handbags and ask if they’d be willing to give a written opinion as to the quality of the clasp, quality of the materials , quality of the workmanship etc etc.

I’m assuming this is a leather bag – doesn’t matter if it isn’t – but you could try someone who makes leather accessories or repairs them – like a saddler or an upmarket shoe repairer***.  My wife had her work briefcase completely renovated (it was falling apart) by a saddler who stitched it back together and replaced the handle and the clasp.

Good luck.

 

*I dunno what you mean by a “designer handbag”.  I suppose one could cost £39.99, or £399, or £3999.  Obviously you don’t want to take too much trouble over this if it only cost £39.99 …

 ** Who in their right mind would expect an expensive designer accessory to last any length of time.  Flannels would look daft putting forward such an argument.  Like Gerald Ratner's admission that his shops' jewellry wouldn't last as long as a prawn sandwich     

** I’m not suggesting you go to the US but this is the sort of guy I mean to get a report from.  A craftsman used to working with those materials:  Another Failed Repair of Louis Vuitton speedy. - YouTube    (Watching him repair very expensive shoes is also very soothing and relaxing... )

RefluentBeans

I agree with Okell. 

I assume that Flannels stance is that you have used the bag more than it was intended to be used, and thus the clasp has failed because of misuse. 

They can legally ask you to provide evidence the fault was inherent and not from your misuse. That evidence could be you saying that you have only used the bag for X hours and opened the bag on average of once an hour and so the bag has only been opened and shut X times. They could reject this, and disagree with you. You aren’t obligated to get a professional independent report, but it does strengthen your case. In this instance though, assuming the bag is pretty good shape, I don’t actually think you’ll need to provide that much evidence. But do your own research and stuff. 

The next step is to keep persisting with the complaints process - when you feel the company isn’t moving (after you’ve exhausted the ‘can I speak to your supervisor’ and emailing the CEO) then you will have to issue a Letter before Action. This is just a simple letter saying why you think the bag is faulty, and this is their last chance to refund you before you go to court. This is a hostile act and normally once done, you can’t undo it and so expect them to either refund you or stop responding to your emails and calls as they wait for your legal action. Following that, you fill in the small claims court paperwork and follow that process. 

In Small Claims Court the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt (as it is in criminal court) but on the balance of probabilities. As the clasp is an easy to understand fault, and the point of failure is easy to understand (did it rip off, was it the stitching that failed, etc?) I don’t think you need to find a handbag specialist and ask for their expert opinion. But it will support your case. The point of the expert opinion is to tell a judge (and potentially you and the retailer) what the fault is, if it’s not obvious - like with a car; or with tech products. In these cases their expert opinion is needed as the lay person (which the judge may well be - they likely aren’t trained in car repair or tech repair) won’t know if the fault arose because of your neglect or because it’s faulty. In your case, you can take the bag in, and hopefully it’s in pristine condition, and say ‘see this clasp here - it fell off. It cost £X and I think it failed due to an inherent fault of the bag. As you can see from the condition of the bag, it is in excellent condition and rarely used. It is on this basis I’m asking for a repair, replacement, or refund as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015’. 

Hope that helps! Keep us updated - I’d expect that if you complain to the customer services team they’ll either repair it, saving the court pavlova

Tessmaz

Thank you for the replies it was a Stella McCartney handbag a small bag that cost £400, I have only worn it on 3 occasions in 13 months, but the clasp is magnetic and the top part has come away form the bag and stuck to the other magnetic part which I cant get off the bag is in pristine condition and it appears to me that it was a fault (manufacturing) I have also gone direct to SM and the team there have been much more helpful, I have provided product codes and photos and I am currently waiting for the repair team to contact me.  to me it feels that a bag should last loner than three wears and that is my argument, I am not looking for a refund, I simply wish for the bag to be put right but I will seek out an independent report if necessary - thank you for the advice it has been helpful 

TELLIT01

The OP has said that a report would probably cost more than the bag which suggests it's not exactly high end.  The OP also states that it was only used occasionally, whilst I don't doubt their word I suspect the retailer will have a different opinion unless and independent report says there is little or no sign of wear.  Without that report I would think the OP would have less chance of a successful outcome.

RefluentBeans

TELLIT01 said:

The OP has said that a report would probably cost more than the bag which suggests it's not exactly high end.  The OP also states that it was only used occasionally, whilst I don't doubt their word I suspect the retailer will have a different opinion unless and independent report says there is little or no sign of wear.  Without that report I would think the OP would have less chance of a successful outcome.

I think a £400 bag isn’t exactly budget - sure these designer bags can go upwards of £1000’s but a £400 isn’t budget.  The issue with requiring a report is that it is being used by retailers to deny consumer their rights. 

Looking at the balance of probabilities, if the bag is in good condition, and the only point of failure is the clasp, then I think it’s fair to say that the clasp was faulty. 

Where do we draw the line of requiring a report for clearly faulty products? A jacket where the zip has come away from the material? Shoes where the glue has failed and the whole bottom sole has come apart from the shoe? Whilst I appreciate a report is good to prove the fault, I don’t think for obvious faults it should be required. And in fact, the CRA only says there needs to be evidence of fault. The evidence can just be a faulty product. Of course, this changes for more complex products but clothing isn’t one of those categories, generally. 

Okell

TELLIT01 said:

The OP has said that a report would probably cost more than the bag which suggests it's not exactly high end.  The OP also states that it was only used occasionally, whilst I don't doubt their word I suspect the retailer will have a different opinion unless and independent report says there is little or no sign of wear.  Without that report I would think the OP would have less chance of a successful outcome.

The OP says the bag cost £400 and has been worn three times in 13 months.

I don't know if the OP is telling the truth or not - that would be up to a judge to decide, not me.

I'm willing to accept what they say at face value and if I were the OP I'd happily sue Flannels if it turns out to be necessary.

The OP can present the bag in evidence if necessary and the court can take its own view as to whether it's just a question of fair wear and tear.  I'm not convinced an independent report is absolutely necessary - but good if they can get one.

If Flannels want to put forward a defence that a bag that cost £400 and has only been worn three times can't be expected to be working ok after a year, good luck to them.

(Of course, if after being worn only three times the bag looks like it's been run over a couple of times by a Churchill tank the OP may want to decide not to take it any further)