Inaccurate description on website

skymole

We recently had a delivery to the value of several thousands for some oak engineered flooring. The narrative on the website stated: "In each pack you will get 5 fixed length boards. You'll also get 2 starter planks measuring a minimum of 500mm in length. We include these to help you start laying your floor and to ensure you keep a consistent staggered pattern throughout." We drew up layouts for several rooms in a cad program based on the information provided. We assumed we would have 5 full length boards at 2200mm. This was not the case. Each pack actually had 4 full length boards and two short boards.
We had chosen this company and this floor because we wanted where possible to use long boards throughout. I emailed to raise the issue but received no reply. I then phoned and spoke to two agents who both confirmed that they would make up the shortfall. But neither got back to me as promised. I finally spoke to a third agent who basically told me that the pack sizes had changed and they could not give us flooring for free?? and were not prepared to honour this description. We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation and the rooms remain unavailable until the floor is laid. I'm wondering whether they have a duty to fulfil the order as the description is part of the contract or if our only recourse is to reject the order and ask for a refund? Any advice greatly appreciated
Thanks

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

skymole said:

 We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation

Hello OP

Sadly this would likely mean it's not a consumer contract and you'd have to look towards the Sale of goods Act to see what legislation governs the contract.

You don't necessarily have to send it all back for a refund, you could buy the extra and try and reclaim this as damages due a breach of contract (if one has occurred). 

Do you have any kind of legal advice bolt on with the insurance provider or such for your rental business?  

born_again

skymole said:

We recently had a delivery to the value of several thousands for some oak engineered flooring. The narrative on the website stated: "In each pack you will get 5 fixed length boards. You'll also get 2 starter planks measuring a minimum of 500mm in length. We include these to help you start laying your floor and to ensure you keep a consistent staggered pattern throughout." We drew up layouts for several rooms in a cad program based on the information provided. We assumed we would have 5 full length boards at 2200mm. This was not the case. Each pack actually had 4 full length boards and two short boards.
We had chosen this company and this floor because we wanted where possible to use long boards throughout. I emailed to raise the issue but received no reply. I then phoned and spoke to two agents who both confirmed that they would make up the shortfall. But neither got back to me as promised. I finally spoke to a third agent who basically told me that the pack sizes had changed and they could not give us flooring for free?? and were not prepared to honour this description. We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation and the rooms remain unavailable until the floor is laid. I'm wondering whether they have a duty to fulfil the order as the description is part of the contract or if our only recourse is to reject the order and ask for a refund? Any advice greatly appreciated
Thanks

So what length boards did you get & where did you get the 2200m/m assumption from?

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

skymole said:

 We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation

Hello OP

Sadly this would likely mean it's not a consumer contract and you'd have to look towards the Sale of goods Act to see what legislation governs the contract.

You don't necessarily have to send it all back for a refund, you could buy the extra and try and reclaim this as damages due a breach of contract (if one has occurred). 

Do you have any kind of legal advice bolt on with the insurance provider or such for your rental business?  

Yeah.

I think SOGA still says that goods must match their description even for business transactions.

As born_again says, it might revolve around where the OP saw "in each pack you will get 5 full length boards" and what full length means.

And whether the actual items they ordered show different specifications.

The trader sounds like one to avoid if they've openly said that they won't honour the description that applied to this transaction...

skymole

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

skymole said:

 We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation

Hello OP

Sadly this would likely mean it's not a consumer contract and you'd have to look towards the Sale of goods Act to see what legislation governs the contract.

You don't necessarily have to send it all back for a refund, you could buy the extra and try and reclaim this as damages due a breach of contract (if one has occurred). 

Do you have any kind of legal advice bolt on with the insurance provider or such for your rental business?  

Thanks for your comment.. Ok - so maybe it's a bit grey.. We currently rent out rooms in a large house. We live on the top floor and rent out the bottom two floors. We are planning on moving to the ground floor this year and renting out the top two floors instead. So in reality we were considering letting the rooms between now and the time we moved down - the lets are all student lets so we often get short term enquiries. But the reason we are installing the new flooring is for our own benefit not for the student lets.

skymole

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

skymole said:

 We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation

Hello OP

Sadly this would likely mean it's not a consumer contract and you'd have to look towards the Sale of goods Act to see what legislation governs the contract.

You don't necessarily have to send it all back for a refund, you could buy the extra and try and reclaim this as damages due a breach of contract (if one has occurred). 

Do you have any kind of legal advice bolt on with the insurance provider or such for your rental business?  

Yeah.

I think SOGA still says that goods must match their description even for business transactions.

As born_again says, it might revolve around where the OP saw "in each pack you will get 5 full length boards" and what full length means.

And whether the actual items they ordered show different specifications.

The trader sounds like one to avoid if they've openly said that they won't honour the description that applied to this transaction...

Thanks for your response.. Just to clarify - We specifically wanted a floor that wasn't made up of mixed lengths, for this reason we shortlisted this flooring. I have included a screenshot of the website description to provide clarity with regard to the board lengths. Additionally, prior to purchasing we ordered samples. The samples came with a printed description on the back. On some of these it would say for example:
Length: 300-1200mm

However on the back of the sample for the floor we ended up buying it said:
Length: 2200mm

See screenshots above.

So our interpretation was that the in the first example, one could expect mixed lengths, however in  the second example all the boards would be 2200mm.

We further understood from the description that the additional short lengths were offcuts and included FoC for convenience and to provide added value.

I think the real problem lies here.

They specify the pack size to equate to: 2.64 m²

Our understanding is that they were providing 5 full lengths which equates to 2.64 m² but they were including an additional couple of offcuts FoC

They are claiming that the offcuts are included in the area calculation.

So although we did probably get around 2.64 m² (I've not measured the offcuts to the mm - but they look as though they make up a whole board between them) We only got 4 full length boards and two shorter boards.
I find it difficult to see how interpretation of the description could support their argument.

So I'm not sure where this would leave us. I'm assuming this is something we could dispute via MCO..
Thanks for your view..

skymole

born_again said:

skymole said:

We recently had a delivery to the value of several thousands for some oak engineered flooring. The narrative on the website stated: "In each pack you will get 5 fixed length boards. You'll also get 2 starter planks measuring a minimum of 500mm in length. We include these to help you start laying your floor and to ensure you keep a consistent staggered pattern throughout." We drew up layouts for several rooms in a cad program based on the information provided. We assumed we would have 5 full length boards at 2200mm. This was not the case. Each pack actually had 4 full length boards and two short boards.
We had chosen this company and this floor because we wanted where possible to use long boards throughout. I emailed to raise the issue but received no reply. I then phoned and spoke to two agents who both confirmed that they would make up the shortfall. But neither got back to me as promised. I finally spoke to a third agent who basically told me that the pack sizes had changed and they could not give us flooring for free?? and were not prepared to honour this description. We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation and the rooms remain unavailable until the floor is laid. I'm wondering whether they have a duty to fulfil the order as the description is part of the contract or if our only recourse is to reject the order and ask for a refund? Any advice greatly appreciated
Thanks

So what length boards did you get & where did you get the 2200m/m assumption from?

Please see last reply.. Thanks

Okell

@skymole - in answer to your first question, no, the trader doesn't have a duty or obligation to fulfil the contract if they cannot do so.

If they can't or won't supply you with the goods as described when you ordered them, then they are in breach of contract and you can reject them for a full refund 

Assuming you haven't given them any indication that this might be a business transaction, you can refer the trader to s11 the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) which states that goods delivered must match their description as ordered.

Unless you originally collected the goods yourself, the trader must also pay any reasonable costs in returning them, or arrange for their collection FOC.  See s20(8) of the above Act.

(NB - Even if this is a business transaction I'm pretty sure that goods still need to match their description.  It used to be the Sale of Goods Act 1979, s13.  Whether this still applies I don't know.  It'll be easier to go the consumer route)

I doubt you'll be able to claim for any loss of rental.  If this wasn't a business transaction then the loss is just one of those things.  If it was a business contract then their T&Cs will almost certainly exclude liability for such losses and you should be claiming on business insurance.

Jumblebumble

skymole said:

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

skymole said:

 We will already lose money due to the delays as these rooms are in rented accomodation

Hello OP

Sadly this would likely mean it's not a consumer contract and you'd have to look towards the Sale of goods Act to see what legislation governs the contract.

You don't necessarily have to send it all back for a refund, you could buy the extra and try and reclaim this as damages due a breach of contract (if one has occurred). 

Do you have any kind of legal advice bolt on with the insurance provider or such for your rental business?  

Yeah.

I think SOGA still says that goods must match their description even for business transactions.

As born_again says, it might revolve around where the OP saw "in each pack you will get 5 full length boards" and what full length means.

And whether the actual items they ordered show different specifications.

The trader sounds like one to avoid if they've openly said that they won't honour the description that applied to this transaction...

Thanks for your response.. Just to clarify - We specifically wanted a floor that wasn't made up of mixed lengths, for this reason we shortlisted this flooring. I have included a screenshot of the website description to provide clarity with regard to the board lengths. Additionally, prior to purchasing we ordered samples. The samples came with a printed description on the back. On some of these it would say for example:
Length: 300-1200mm

However on the back of the sample for the floor we ended up buying it said:
Length: 2200mm

See screenshots above.

So our interpretation was that the in the first example, one could expect mixed lengths, however in  the second example all the boards would be 2200mm.

We further understood from the description that the additional short lengths were offcuts and included FoC for convenience and to provide added value.

I think the real problem lies here.

They specify the pack size to equate to: 2.64 m²

Our understanding is that they were providing 5 full lengths which equates to 2.64 m² but they were including an additional couple of offcuts FoC

They are claiming that the offcuts are included in the area calculation.

So although we did probably get around 2.64 m² (I've not measured the offcuts to the mm - but they look as though they make up a whole board between them) We only got 4 full length boards and two shorter boards.
I find it difficult to see how interpretation of the description could support their argument.

So I'm not sure where this would leave us. I'm assuming this is something we could dispute via MCO..
Thanks for your view..

I would go back and ask escalate to a manager to ask why they have stated that you will receive 7 planks in each pack but they are only providing 6

The comment that the ofcuts are included in the total area is no more than an ignorant customer agent who is apparantly chalenged by simple mathmatics and is irrelevant
 It all turns on what outcome you want.

Okell

@skymole -  just to clarify my post from yesterday, you should be presenting yourself to the trader as a consumer and that you are exercising your rights under the Consumer Rights Act that I linked to.  that's the easiest way to deal with this.

Of course if you've already suggested to them that you are lossing rental income as a result of this, they might argue that you are a business and not a consumer and that will make it more difficult for you, although even if you are a business purchaser my understanding is that the goods still must match their description

skymole

Thanks again for all your input. I am still waiting for a reply. But apparently it has been escalated. Having talked to my wife who deals with the lettings, she says she wasn't even going to try to let out the rooms. The loss of rental revenue would still exist because there would be a delay in when we could move onto the lower floor and then rent out the upper floor.. But she placed the order through a personal email, not the rental business email and paid for the order from a personal account. So I think in reality it would be considered to be a consumer transaction. One thing I'm not now sure about is as follows. The initial two agents we spoke to on the phone indicated that they would make up the shortfall. So if on the basis of these calls we arranged for the contractor to continue laying the floor, it means we cannot return it for a refund. I think in these circumstances it would be reasonable to expect that they remedy the situation by providing the additional boards to make up the order according to their description. The only problem is that these were just phone calls and they may deny having agreed to remedy the shortfall...