Messy

kittycatface

My partner whose mortgaged house I live in has recovered from a heart attack and cardiac arrest but left with some level of brain non function (but not brain injury visible on scan). He is of pension age. He had no LPA in place. We are not married, I am working age and currently 4 days a week at work. 

The following things I have already researched: 

His 3 adult kids can apply to be deputies but if they want to do both the welfare and the finances it will cost the family a minimum of 408x2

We can’t claim attendance allowance until 6 months after the date of cardiac arrest (even though he was under NHS for 6 months before having investigations). would my income or savings be included as a household even though we have no shared finances and are not married? Could we put the application in on his behalf even though the kids will have to wait a minimum of 4-6months to get the deputy status and even putting in the application might take longer 

We cannot claim carers allowance unless I give up work as my job currently pays more than the income threshold. What do other people do as surely most people with a poorly relative care for someone more than 35hrs per week but also that’s a tiny income threshold. Any tips from existing carers really welcome. 

I have spoken to his and my bank (we bank with the same provider) and one specialist financial support team told me to notify the mortgage current accounts and loan people but the mortgage person said he could not even put a note on the persons account without permission even though I had all the relevant details. Is this right as there surely something in adult safeguarding law that trumps GDPR about trying to save someone from accumulating debt - the library just renewed his books until june !!!!!! so why can’t other institutions help! 

Am I liable in the household for any debts? My name is only on one of the bills and although I pay half of all, and in the case of the mortgage, more than half, I am concerned that if council tax increase goes unpaid then I become liable because I live there, and the council have not called me back about the account. Its in his name but is a 2 person household we pay the full amount. I am petrified that whilst we wait for deputyship there will be baliffs at the door for unpaid bills or loan that I didn’t know he had or is not covered by his pension, and he does still have some credit card and loan debt. I honestly don’t think I can manage this long term and just feel like moving out until he is settled in rehab and then just considering him a single person household so he will get better support and other people who are paid to know this stuff. Ive spoken to carers uk bhf and local authority and referred myself for a carers assessment which will happen from a charity in 6 weeks time. 

then there is the matter of the house. I have no right no tenancy and no evidence of paying towards it apart from the monthly amount for mortgage and bills that goes into his account which no one can access as its online only. It only says his account number on my statement. His kids are all amazing and very kind, so I don’t anticipate a current or near future difficulty but if he suddenly wants to move or move to a more suitable adapted type property then I would have to move with him and go with whatever decision the kids make…and whilst he is in hospital or rehab I am finding both costs and maintenance increasing for a house that is not mine. 

before anyone says why didn’t you discuss with him before…I tried and really struggled to get him to acknowledge his age and stage. 

And yes we are all happy he is still with us in some shape or format and want to work really hard to make sure that we all have the best info and support to make sure we can do things in a sane way for him and stay proactive but not exhausted ! Major respect to anyone managing situations like this or any carers out there, its only been a few weeks and its been crackers. 

Any constructive advice gratefully received. Thank you so much all x 

Torry_Quine

This is a difficult situation you've found yourself in .  I'm glad his children are supportive.   You may be able to get universal credit which is based on household income and savings. Is he not able to give you permission to access his finances? CAB may help you 

Be warned POA isn't quick to obtain but is he able to give it? If he can't then you'll have a much more difficult quest. 

Someone more knowledgeable than me will be along. 

elsien

If you have evidence of lack of capacity around his finances, then someone can apply to be his appointee. This will allow any state benefits/pension  to be paid into an account set up by the appointee and which can be used to pay bills and ongoing expenses. It won’t allow access to private pensions or bank accounts, but it is better than nothing and it is quicker than deputyship while that goes through. 

I have to say, I think the four month estimate for deputyship is extremely optimistic going on past experience and OPG backlogs. Not long ago it was taking upwards of a year.  And generally speaking, because people can regain capacity, then you may need to wait to apply anyway. You will need a formal capacity assessment around finances to proceed with this.
 

For what it’s worth welfare deputyships are much rarer than health ones because the court tend to take the view that the best interest process is enough protection for most people. 
 

You can inform people of his situation and that he’s not in a position to manage his finances and bills at the moment. They may not be able to discuss that with you due to GDPR but they can note what is happening and put a hold on any Debt recovery processes. Escalate up the line if you are hitting a brick wall with the first line of call centre. Debt, recovery agents threaten a lot, but have no legal power. 

For bailiffs to come out there needs to be a CCJ. Again, showing evidence of lack of capacity should put any potential court application process on hold. I have been working with a lady who has lost capacity around her finances - the equity release company wanted to repossess her home and they had to wait for the deputyship to be in place to start any proceedings. 

When he is able to claim attendance allowance, it is not means tested. Any other means tested benefit would take your income into account as a couple. 

Should it come to it, because if this has just happened it’s too soon to say that he won’t be able to manage his own affairs in the future, for the council tax you can look at the severe mental impairment discount. 

It is a very difficult situation to be in and there aren’t really any shortcuts. And it can get very messy in the short term. But the rules aren’t just about GDPR; they are about protecting the person and making sure the correctly legal processes are in place. 

sheramber

If  any bills are paid by direct debit then they should still be paid as long as there is enough money in his account. 

tacpot12

You can evidence that you have been paying him towards the mortgage and bills using the payments from your account. These are sufficient to prove that you have been paying him. 

Because you have been paying the mortgage, it is likely that you have a beneficial interest in your home, which means you do have the right to live there. This page tells you a bit more about this (you can ignore the fact that the page is aimed at situations where the relationship has broken down): Occupation rights if one partner is the sole owner - Shelter England

As has been stated, one of his children or you can apply to be his appointee so that an application for Attendance Allowance can be made as soon as the 6 month waiting period has passed.

As has been stated, applying for a Deputyship for Health and Welfare is not worth it unless the family expects problems, either with each other or with the doctors treating the person. 

There is no way around the income limit for Carers Allowance; I think most people give up work and claim Universal Credit. You can use a benefit calculator to work out how much you would receive, and you will potentially receive more if a successful claim for Attendance Allowance is made. I can't find anything that confirms that giving up work to care for someone doesn't result in a sancion (unless the person you are caring for is child). 

Danien

Giving up work or cutting hours to care for someone does not result in a sanction for benefits, but take benefit advice before you make that choice to see what your best options are - a good welfare rights adviser would be able to do a 'better off' calculation to check benefit entitlement in different situations. Obviously this is difficult until you know his full income and savings.

You don't have to be an appointee in order to apply for attendance allowance, you just fill in the form on the person's behalf and there is a section to say that on the form - can he still sign the form? Managing the claim after an award is made would require someone to be an appointee.

Income or savings do not effect attendance allowance.

Are you pension age or close to pension age as it impacts what you may be able to claim.

kittycatface

Thanks all belatedly for really detailed and helpful comments. I will suggest to his daughter that she can become his appointee. And to answer your question Danien I am only 40 so am pretty sure that I wouldn't be in a position to be better of on universal credit and with carers allowance but you have reminded me that for my job I can refer people to welfare rights service and they can do the calculation just to check it out. Really appreciate all of your time and efforts to help. 

Thanks for the really good advice about deputyship. He is in a much better mental state now and I think everyone was wise to wait. I suppose one of my questions is who to approach to do capacity assessments once he is discharged from hospital. Most medics seem to shy away from it unless it is about treatment but he does not have a social worker involved and when I asked the OT she said her manager said it was not something they usually get involved in - and she would ask the junior doctor (who has nothing to do with finance!) 

Thanks for the information about the beneficial interest, I went to CAB today and they just said I had no rights so this is useful to know. 

We will wait and see if he qualifies for SMI for the purposes of council tax, but because there is no visible brain damage then I doubt it and because he is regaining a lot of function which is great, but the issue is that it is quite variable and I feel he can easily fall through the cracks of the system. 

This is a long shot but if anyone has used any medical negligence lawyers I would like to hear from them in direct messaging with their experience. We (me as a carer) certainly have grounds to send legal letters around prescribing and this has totally altered our lives. I don't want some sort of no win no fee type silliness just someone who can QA a perfectly adequate letter that I have written and insert the relevant statute. 

Thanks so much again. Kitty 

elsien

For an appointee, once someone has applied, the DWP will come out and assess whether an appointee is required or not. So the lack of a social worker shouldn’t make any difference to that process if there is a family member willing and able to apply. 

If you do need to go for deputyship in the future and there is no medical or social care professional willing or involved then you might need to look at paying a professional to do it. 

However, once out of hospital if he needs a care act assessment around his support needs then that could be requested from a local authority (there is a wait due to being shortstaffed and pressure of referrals) and the allocated social worker could then completed capacity assessment if needed. 

In some areas, people don’t get a social worker until they’re out of hospital but I do think the care act side of things is something that you should be asking about.  Although from experience you can probably expect the medical professionals to look blank at that point so you might need to request an assessment on his behalf. 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/arranging-care/care-needs-assessment/