Attempted scam on my mother of someone impersonating me. How may they have gotten relevant info?

GervisLooper

You may instantly say it is easy due to all the information people post online now but I have never done that, being very security conscious, and besides seeing it as gratuitous, and while she is less careful than me she is elderly and is not one to be posting her life online like current younger generations. Little bits here and there but not personal information that I could think related to this.

My mum asked me late in the evening to confirm information to send a payment to an account for a couple of thousand pounds. I said I don't have any idea what she is talking about.

She had been in hospital a few days earlier for a fall and initially I thought it may be related to that but then she said someone had been texting her which was saved as my name in her phone. She said they wrote they had dropped their phone down the toilet and required a couple of thousand to pay some bills and to transfer to some unfamiliar business account. She noted they also linked a linkedin account which she said lent to its credibility.

I think she said the messages came from google messages. I am not sure what that is but she said it was a number which was saved in her phone as my name however it was not one of my numbers.

Thankfully she asked me to confirm this face to face before sending at which point she stopped and then rang relevant places like bank and such to ask advice and to indicate to not take any strange money.

I could understand if it was a random number just spamming the same type of message however what I am not seeing is how they could have gotten my name saved in her phone.

Bear in mind that I have never used any social media and and super against posting public information online so not sure how they would have gotten that information. Also how would they know I was her son and how would she end up saving the phone as me?

My mum also doesn't use social media like facebook, maybe one derelict account from years ago she never uses. Just a family whatsapp which I am not a part of.

It was coincidental that I had been changing numbers quite a bit lately due to trying new phone deals so perhaps there was a random message and she added me but how would they know to use my name to get her to add?

One possibility that I was thinking was that since she was in the hospital for the fall only a couple of days prior she said she was waiting around for 10 hours or something to be seen, with her partner, and mentioned her talking to several people while waiting, it being a busy saturday night. So I am wondering if someone could have gone through her phone there if it was left unattended at some point. She said her partner was watching if she wasn't but maybe somehow his attention lapsed at some point. We are living rural and the hospital is in a small city so would not expect that to be high on the list of possibilities but maybe.

Only other thing I could think is maybe her email was hacked as that is the only place we really speak on regularly. I don't even use my phone unless I am away somewhere and prefer to have it off unless expecting a call or to send one.

It is easy to write off if it was clearly just untailored spam however it is the personal information that has got me wanting to know how they got that.

elsien

But if they are spoofing random numbers, which is probably what’s happened, then it would look as if it came from you? That doesn’t mean that they have all your details though. 

GervisLooper

elsien said:

But if they are spoofing random numbers, which is probably what’s happened, then it would look as if it came from you? That doesn’t mean that they have all your details though. 

Well how would they get the right name though? Or at least get my mum to believe it is me so she would save it as such. It is not spoofing my number because as mentioned that was not the same number as mine, but a different one saved in her phone as my name.

I suppose it could be not too hard to make vague statements to get someone to believe they are messaging someone they know, like simple cold reading 'psychic' tricks, but from the messages she told me about it didn't seem there had been an extended conversation or attempt to do that unless she has forgotten or done so at an earlier time. However the message history, which should show even historical messages shouldn't it, from what she said was immediately requesting a transfer from the number already saved as my name.

DE_612183

If it was a random number spoof - how was the OP's name stored in the phone as his details - I can only think that could have been done by having access to phone or the the online info - the OP hasn't said whether this was an iPhone ( which would require access to iCloud ) or something else.

DullGreyGuy

It's not clear on what the status is... if you look at the text messages what phone number/email address did it come from? Is that number/email saved in her Contacts/Address Book at all?

Do you share the same surname as your mother?

There are two more likely options....

1) They have spoofed your number/email and hence the phone would have associated it to your contact details. Did they refer to her as "mum" or such? If this were the case then you'd have received 

2) They've added a contact card to a phone number of theirs with your name, it therefore would show against your name but wouldn't be in the address book. Obv if you share a surname then all they need to know is your first name and her surname & number.  This certainly works on iPhone to iPhone and would imagine Android has something similar. With this option they receive the replies she sends


Are there other options? I occasionally get a spam text stating "hi mum it's me, I've broken my phone so using a new number, can you ....". For me its obvious face, for one I dont have children, for two, they wouldn't be calling me mum if I did. I know a friends mum did fall for it initially anyway and added the number to their kids contact card in their phone so then the phone changed the number to their name.  Could your mum have been the one to have added the number to your contact?

I think someone physically interfering with the phone and then also sending fake texts is unlikely and it's also unnecessary for them to do it to achieve what you are saying. 

GervisLooper

DE_612183 said:

If it was a random number spoof - how was the OP's name stored in the phone as his details - I can only think that could have been done by having access to phone or the the online info - the OP hasn't said whether this was an iPhone ( which would require access to iCloud ) or something else.

Indeed. Yes she has an iphone and I don't.

DullGreyGuy said:

It's not clear on what the status is... if you look at the text messages what phone number/email address did it come from? Is that number/email saved in her Contacts/Address Book at all?

Do you share the same surname as your mother?

There are two more likely options....

1) They have spoofed your number/email and hence the phone would have associated it to your contact details. Did they refer to her as "mum" or such? If this were the case then you'd have received 

2) They've added a contact card to a phone number of theirs with your name, it therefore would show against your name but wouldn't be in the address book. Obv if you share a surname then all they need to know is your first name and her surname & number.  This certainly works on iPhone to iPhone and would imagine Android has something similar. With this option they receive the replies she sends


Are there other options? I occasionally get a spam text stating "hi mum it's me, I've broken my phone so using a new number, can you ....". For me its obvious face, for one I dont have children, for two, they wouldn't be calling me mum if I did. I know a friends mum did fall for it initially anyway and added the number to their kids contact card in their phone so then the phone changed the number to their name.  Could your mum have been the one to have added the number to your contact?

I think someone physically interfering with the phone and then also sending fake texts is unlikely and it's also unnecessary for them to do it to achieve what you are saying. 

As I stated in OP the messages came from a number, which was not known to her and not one I own, which was saved in her phone as my name.

We have the same surname, yes.

I think she said the messages referred to her as mum but not to sure as she deleted them immediately saying she doesn't want them on her phone any more as she was paranoid about them doing harm or whatnot being on there. I did say she should probably have written down the information to investigate further. She said she still had them later when looking. I am still not clear on all the details as she told me this just as I was about to go to bed last night and just told her to ring relevant places to notify of attempted scam and left it at that until the morning and am just relaying what I know so far. Made this post in hopes to drill down more information to continue the inquiry.

While I am pretty savvy, or so I think, with computer related security I don't have much knowledge about smartphones as I have always avoided them preferring to just use a normal computer for internet related stuff and a 'dumb' phone for basic calling and texting. As such not sure about the smartphone status of things you mention above. I do not know any of the common nomenclature with that side of things.

Yes, as you say, I think her adding the number herself is the most likely eventuality. As mentioned I had been juggling several numbers so would not seem strange for there to be a new number which she herself would save as me. Would be nice to know just how that happened but if that seems the most probable, then that does seem satisfactory to appease curiosity as to the how if we don't find out exactly.

Maybe rereading the messages as to the specific wording will reveal things better given these new considerations.

The main motivation, besides personal edification, is to find out if any other mediums could have been compromised like email.

DullGreyGuy

GervisLooper said:

DE_612183 said:

If it was a random number spoof - how was the OP's name stored in the phone as his details - I can only think that could have been done by having access to phone or the the online info - the OP hasn't said whether this was an iPhone ( which would require access to iCloud ) or something else.

Indeed. Yes she has an iphone and I don't.

DullGreyGuy said:

It's not clear on what the status is... if you look at the text messages what phone number/email address did it come from? Is that number/email saved in her Contacts/Address Book at all?

Do you share the same surname as your mother?

There are two more likely options....

1) They have spoofed your number/email and hence the phone would have associated it to your contact details. Did they refer to her as "mum" or such? If this were the case then you'd have received 

2) They've added a contact card to a phone number of theirs with your name, it therefore would show against your name but wouldn't be in the address book. Obv if you share a surname then all they need to know is your first name and her surname & number.  This certainly works on iPhone to iPhone and would imagine Android has something similar. With this option they receive the replies she sends


Are there other options? I occasionally get a spam text stating "hi mum it's me, I've broken my phone so using a new number, can you ....". For me its obvious face, for one I dont have children, for two, they wouldn't be calling me mum if I did. I know a friends mum did fall for it initially anyway and added the number to their kids contact card in their phone so then the phone changed the number to their name.  Could your mum have been the one to have added the number to your contact?

I think someone physically interfering with the phone and then also sending fake texts is unlikely and it's also unnecessary for them to do it to achieve what you are saying. 

As I stated in OP the messages came from a number, which was not known to her and not one I own, which was saved in her phone as my name.

Its this bit that just would have needed testing had it not been deleted 

With iPhone a user can add their name, photo etc to their own device and any other iPhone user receiving an iMessage from this person will automatically see the name and photo etc as if they were in their contact list but that occurs on the very first message even with the person not being in the address book. 

I got a random text from a recruitment agent called Carlos yesterday, never spoken to him in my life before (but know his employer) and yet in my texts I've his profile photo and name rather than number. Obviously it's useful in many circumstances but can be used for nefarious purposes as there are no checks to ensure you enter your own name. 

It could be they just declared themselves as you, could be they didnt and just said "mum" and your mother took it at face value and added them. 

Most of these things are volume plays and not detailed attack against a single person hence I get messages addressed to "mum", at least 50% of those messages are likely to go to someone who may at some point be called Mum. Much easier than waiting in hospital wait rooms for hours to see if someone leaves an unlocked phone laying about. 

DE_612183

iphones will also look at email and "suggest" a name if they find a match - usually ( for me anyway ) its comes up as (Could be..) Joe Bloggs

powerful_Rogue

This scam has been going around a little while now.

I would say you mum has saved this new number to her phone as you.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-12388539/New-warning-hi-mum-scam-fraudsters-sunk-new-depths-bid-cash-vulnerable-Brits.html

Silvertabby

Likely to be 'Hi mum'.  So glad your mum checked first, many elderly people have lost a lot of money to these ***********s.

GervisLooper

powerful_Rogue said:

This scam has been going around a little while now.

I would say you mum has saved this new number to her phone as you.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-12388539/New-warning-hi-mum-scam-fraudsters-sunk-new-depths-bid-cash-vulnerable-Brits.html

Thanks, that is good to know it was just a round robin style rather than targeted. Others did mention but reassuring it has been newsworthy as a common scam.