excel parking , 10 mins free before fine

rousealdo

hi guys , my wife has a fine for failure to purchase the parking tariff for for her car, with in the time allowed. 

my wife went in a car park , realised she had no change went to the shop got some change and went to buy a ticket. there was a old lady in front of here who couldn't work the machine , hence making my Mrs late paying. ( we didn't know about the 10 mins, it is clear to see next to the  machine) 

she went in according to there pic 10:48:51 
left there at 12:36:27 
bought her ticket at 10:59 
so its 9 seconds, are they for real or what . 

ive been reading on here all day but seen nothing like this to read about , so realy could do with some help please, i read the newby bit and took some of it to write to them , but as its in black and white , its hard to argue ,  so not to sure what to say , hope some one can help us please , cheers rousealdo 

nopcns

No one who comes here for advice pays a penny to the Excel/VCS scammers. What your wife has received is a "penalty" that is not enforceable should it ever get to court. The speculative invoice she has received from the unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract is not a "fine" and Excel/VCS are not an "authority" that can impose a "penalty" such as a "fine".

What you need to do is re-read the Newbies/FAQ thread a bit more carefully.

Have you tried Plan A yet?This is the easiest way to get this cancelled. Ask the landowner/business that owns the car park (not Excel) to get the PCN cancelled.

Plan B is to use the template appeal from the Newbies/FAQ thread. Plan B is best avoided as Excel are members of the incestuous IPC.

If Plan A doesn't work, come back if/when you receive an LoC so that you can use Plan D which is your guarantee that only a judge (a truly independent arbiter) will decide whether you owe Excel a debt.

rousealdo

ive had a look and come up with this , im not sure if im telling them to much , cheers 

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. as the payment of £2:00 for 2 hours was utilized , with time to spare .

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.
id love to know how, the event was on the 10th o f April , it took a week to figure it out, issued on 17th, then a week to get to this address ,

as you can see the attached print outs from the ticket a ticket was purchased at 10.59 am

you state time of entry was 10:48:51

time of exit was 12:36:27

the person driving went to get some change from the near by shop , they never drove as the street your car park is on , is one way, the traffic at present in town is shocking and to go round the block would take 15 mins at present.

when she came back to pay a old lady was stood in front of her and could not work the machine. they helped her to do the registration number etc ,

if you figure it out they are being fined for 9 seconds .

but in-fact if you check the vehicle leaving at 12:36:27

that's a stay of 1 hr 47mins 36 secs. if you add the 10mins and 9 seconds its 1 hr 57mins and 45 secs you are still in pocket as such. i find this shocking

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

yours many thanks

Coupon-mad

I agree. Excel won't read it. Horrible firm IMHO and going by all reported accounts seen here and in the press.

People should boycott such car parks.  Seriously: the lesson to take from this is do not use private car parks.

There are almost always plenty of places to park on-street (or in a Council car park) which is where people should aim to park in towns & cities.

Anyway now the parking sharks have caught your wife, my first question is:

Why do you say there was an allowed "10 minutes to pay"?  What made you conclude that? Does it say so on a sign?

rousealdo

hi coupon mad, yes there are signs on the post as you go in , and next to the ticket machine  in big letters 

Coupon-mad

OK no worries about that.  A few alleged seconds (unproven/ going by two unsynched systems) is de minimis.

Try an IAS appeal just for the LOLs but no paying even if she loses.

rousealdo

after reading for several hours ive decided this may be the way forward , i hope im getting it 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client/ landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Furthermore, the notice states failure to purchase the parking tariff for the registration mark of the vehicle on site and /or within the time allowed! This is not a length of time of which one would park, and is surely the time taken to enter, find a space, find a sign, read the terms and decide whether to accept the terms, and leave."

Coupon-mad

I think change your last paragraph to this:

Payment for parking was made in full and in good time. You appear to be saying that it took 10 minutes and 9 seconds to pay.  This period is reasonable under the circumstances and substantially compliant on the part of the driver.

Nine seconds (if evidenced by you, which it has not been) is de minimis as a matter of law, and even if an IAS Assessor sides with you I won't be paying.  This will be a money pit case for you so I invite you to give up and make a pragmatic decision now to accept that the tariff was paid within/in the region of 10 minutes and you are owed nothing more.

You'll be laughed out of court if you try litigation over an alleged nine seconds relying upon two different and unsynchronised timing systems (ANPR and a PDT machine).  By all means waste your time on IAS if you want to throw wasted money at it.  Up to you.  I believe both appeals stages are biased and you will get nowhere.

rousealdo

many thanks for your help , its really appreciated , fingers crossed