Registering Enduring Power of Attorney confusion

YBR

My mother has an Enduring Power of Attorney from years ago and is getting in a stress about registering it - I live to far away to read through what it actually says and am getting a rather garbled version over the phone. For clarity my mother is able to deal with her affairs fine at the moment.

I have more recent Lasting Power of Attorneys and I know these differ from EPA. These are already registered and the Financial one allows my Attorneys to act for me at any time. It seems the EPA needs to be registered if, and only if, the donor loses capacity, and it can't be pre-registered for future use.

Reading between the lines, someone has been saying how long it takes for Powers of Attorney to be registered at the moment and panicking Mum that she should get hers registered, someone who doesn't know there's a difference between EPA and LPA. So she got the form to register and calls me flustered about having to notify 3 relatives (discounting her sister overseas she has only me and my brother), and going on about the wording - because it should be the Attorneys doing the form not her!

I'm going to have to help her get her head round this (she's worried about the costs I might have to bear before I can access her funds). 

Am I right about how EPA works differently?

Might it be worthwhile for her to cancel the EPA and replace with LPA(s)?

Brie

No idea if replacing with LPAs might be a good idea (but guessing that it might help as at least then you know what you're dealing with and mom will be less stressed).  And no idea what it takes to cancel the EPA.

But I do know that you can DIY the LPAs and they will only cost about £85 each to put in place.  No need to have a solicitor involved - unless one is needed for the EPA of course but I don't know what one would be required.  

badmemory

Surely if it has never been registered in legal terms it does not exist.  Isn't that the benefit of the POAs in that once they know about it then it can be enacted whenever necessary.

p00hsticks

badmemory said:

Surely if it has never been registered in legal terms it does not exist.  Isn't that the benefit of the POAs in that once they know about it then it can be enacted whenever necessary.

That's the case with the new Lasting Power of Attorneys, but my recollection is that the old Enduring Power of Attorney only had to be registered at the point when the donor lost mental capacity - before then you could use it with the donors agreement. 

My OH used to have one for his mother and used it to e.g. get a separate bank card he could used to make payments and get cash out from her account on her behalf. But I don't beleive it was ever registered before she died.

I imagine the problem you may hit now with the old style EPAs is that organisations aren't as familiar with them anymore and may not know how to deal with them.

One good thing about the LPAs I've just found is that once registered you can give organisations access to them electronically so don't necessarily need to physically have the paper LPA in your hand. 

Daniel54

Like an LPA,an EPA allows the attorney to look after the financial  affairs of the donor,even if they retain mental capacity.Either way the the consent of the donor is of course  needed (not necessarily in writing).I did this for several years for my late mum,and only registered the EPA with the OPG to protect her when her capacity was clearly diminishing.Once registered,I was able to advise the relevant organisations,such as her bank,but in reality it made little difference as I was already running her financial affairs.

You are correct that you cannot register the EPA until sufficient capacity has been lost.

As an aside,I have read elsewhere that as EPAs become less common,there is a greater chance you may find that someone at eg the bank,does not know sufficiently how they work.

To put your mother's mind at rest it may well be worth doing LPAs for both finance and health.Once these are registered,the EPA becomes invalid and you can simply put it in the shredder.

Hope this helps.

elsien

I would also agree with registering new LPA. 

The EPA doesn’t cover health and welfare, and if your mum does an LPA for finances she can if she wishes set it up so it can still be used while she has capacity with her consent. Which is invaluable in the case of physical ill health or disability or the person just wants someone else to take over certain aspects of their finances from a convenient point of view.
I printed off paper copies to give to Mum so she got time to properly think about what she wanted to put in it and what power she wanted to give people. Then I did it online for her.

ss2020jd

I would also advise going down the LPA route. [edited to add that the link on the gov.uk website seems to suggest it could cost £371 to cancel a registered EPA, if I am reading it correctly].

Should that not be the case… As others have said it is straightforward to do the LPA online and once registered you can obtain an access code to give to organisations so they can view a summary online. Be aware though it can take up to 20 weeks to be registered with the Office of the Public Guardian, 

I am using the property and finance LPA for my mum and it has been invaluable in helping me manage my mum’s finances and sort out bills etc for her. The LPA states that it can be used while she still has capacity with her permission. 

I understand the EPA was superseded by the LPA in 2007 and the .gov website has information explaining how to use it or how to cancel and create an LPA instead:

https://www.gov.uk/use-or-cancel-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

badmemory

But if the EPA hasn't been registered then does it still existed if shredded?

YBR

Thanks for all your helpful comments. I have passed the information to Mum and advised she should have a look at the LPA information and consider whether that would suit her better.

@ss2020jd I think it's that 20 weeks that is causing the worry. So far as I can tell it applies to both EPA and LPA, but while we wait the EPA is still valid.

YBR

badmemory said:

But if the EPA hasn't been registered then does it still existed if shredded?

The original is in her solicitor's safe, so yes, until that and all copies are shredded.

elsien

There are delays with registering LPAs. But if there is anything your mum wants help with the meantime while she has capacity if she can make a general power of attorney. 

There’s no specific paperwork or registration, it’s normally used (for example) if people are going abroad for a couple of months and I’m going to be out of touch, and only applies while they have capacity.