3 questions re: BW Legal claim

Ukay1

I have three questions which relate to whether I should pay a parking fine.

The facts are as follows:

Last Summer at a car park in Cornwall using the Ringgo app I paid for three hours but mistakenly due to an error with the Ringgo app overstayed by 71 minutes.  The parking operator was therefore deprived of somewhere in the region of £2.  I then received a fine of £50 which went up to £100 after 14 days elapsed.  I ignored it and eventually received a letter from BW Legal representing the operator (KBT Cornwall Limited trading as Amtrak Security Services).  Numerous rounds of correspondence followed, including a decision against me by POPLA.  

I have on the 25th of April received an email from BW Legal telling me that they filed a claim with a court on the 10th of April.  If BW Legal are telling the truth then the 14 days for me to file a claim therefore at its earliest expired on 24th of April.

I have received no defence form from the court although this may be due to the fact that I recently moved and have a postal redirection which has resulted in delay - this in itself is a relevant concern. 

I now have a few questions that I would be grateful for advice on from the learned members of this forum.

First question: have others here ever succeeded  by relying on the Scottish case of Cargius v Parking Eye? Sorry I have a link summarising the case but as I now to the forum I am not permitted to post a link.

The most useful thing about the case is that it case concerns a paid car park so the operator received income from others using the car park (unlike in the Beavis case) and the defendant had like me paid but overstayed.  Though it is a Scottish and a lower court case, it could only ever be persuasive and not binding. 

Second question: Can the claimant can reasonably expect to be awarded £245 (plus fixed costs their court fees)?  Given that in small claims a party who wins is not entitled to their legal costs but only the same claimed plus fixed court feel, I do not understand how the £50 original fine which would’ve gone up to £100 after the expiry of say 14 days has now come up to £245.  Surely a court would not award that full sum?

Third question (and prob the deciding factor over whether I pay):  CCJs.  My understanding is that if I were to lose the CCJ would def be reflected in my credit history.  However, if I pay the CCJ within 30 days of the court decision and provided I provide evidence of payment both to BW Legal and the court within 30 days of the CCJ then whilst the CCJ will remain on my credit history, a note will be made against indicates that I have paid.  However, I expect that in practical terms, merely having a CCJ on my credit file even if it is identified as having been satisfied, will have an impact on my ability to secure loans and / or the interest rate on a loan I am granted. 

Would be grateful for any advice or thoughts that folks here might have

Many thanks.

Coupon-mad

Cargius isn't Scottish.  It's also really really old and nothing more than another county court decision.  I never use it and it is close to irrelevant.  Not a precedent.  Nowt special.

Ring up BW Legal right now and ask for the claim number and for them to note that the claim has not been served because it has not been received.  Tell them that they are in breach of the Civil Procedure Rules as they used an old address for the claim and you have not been served with it yet.

Follow that up with an email to BW saying the same thing (then they are on notice that this claim is not served) BUT GET THAT CLAIM NUMBER OVER THE PHONE RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

Your "14 days" is not up. You need the claim number and ideally a copy of the Particulars.  

DO NOT BE SPOOKED INTO PAYING.

DO NOT BE TOLD IT IS TOO LATE. IT IS NOT. THERE ARE 19 DAYS TO DEFEND.

Ukay1

Thanks very much for this - been a long day so only just seen your reply.  Will call them first thing on Monday and report back!  Thank you!

Coupon-mad

"they filed a claim with a court on the 10th of April".

Which only gives you until Monday at 4pm to do the AOS.  And you can only do that with a claim number.

I suggest you play the game well. And urgently.

I suggest you  phone and confirm your data (old and new address) and ask them for proof they've filed a claim, what's the claim number because you are weighing up your options and need the claim ref if you are to PAY.

You are not actually going to pay but make them think you might...

Get that claim number (and ideally a copy of the Particulars by email whilst on the phone, NOT LATER) by asking them politely for all the information.

Really polite. Butter them up. 

Get what you need then end the call. DO NOT PAY.  Do the AOS the minute you get off the phone but you will have to do it by EMAIL unless you can this weekend get to the old address and pick up that claim form.

In fact, DO THAT this weekend.  I reckon it's at the old address and wasn't redirected.

If it's not there, go to the sorting office (local to the old address) before they close on Sat morning and ask if they are still holding any post pending redirection because you've missed something very important and you need it now.

Coupon-mad

You won't be able to do the AOS online without the actual claim form (you'd have to email the AOS if you only get a claim number) which is why I think you should go on the hunt for that Claim form on Saturday morning.

KeithP

To reinforce @Coupon-mad's message... 

You have lost another day.
You must get that Claim Number very soon.

With a Claim Issue Date of 10th April, you have until 4pm on Monday 29th April to file an Acknowledgment of Service. 

Without the password from the Claim Form, you won't be able to file an Acknowledgment of Service online but you must file an AOS by 4pm on Monday 29th April to give yourself two weeks to create and file a Defence.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you will then have until 4pm on Monday 13th May 2024 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute. 

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website.

Gr1pr

the claim would be for £100 ( the original pcn charge) , plus the court filing fee of £35 , plus the legal fees of £50 , making £185 , the rest is possibly made up of interest , and lastly debt collectors fees that were not incurred anyway

a typical loss in court is more likely to be around £200 , to £220 , assuming that the judge threw out the ( not incurred ) false debt collectors charges and interest etc , but they try it on in case of default judgments happening, the ones that slip through

Ukay1

Ok - so looking at the letter again the include the “claim number” but no claim form.  So I don’t have the password to file the AOS online.  

Coupon-mad, are you suggesting I call up BW Legal to tell that about the change of address and at the same time ask them for a copy of the Particulars of Claim and the Claim Form?  Am I right in thinking though that BW won’t have my Claim Form and so won’t be able to tell my password?

Did you say that I can file an AOS via email without the password on the Claim Form?

Many thanks.

fisherjim

Just being picky for clarification you never received a "fine" it was an invoice, and the"parking operator" was not "deprived of £2" the parking operator in effect was deprived of nothing!

 The payment to park goes to the landowner, the parking operator (PPC) gets only what they make from issuing a PCN.

So in effect the PPC want as many people to fail like you as possible, it makes them money, and that's also why they chase these cases like they do.

Ukay1

@fisherjim

Yee, you are right.  All written in haste.  Just trying to think it all through to what the right course of action is in current circumstances.

Coupon-mad

You have a claim number? Panic over.

EMAIL THE AOS TODAY TO BOTH BW LEGAL AND THE CNBC, TELLING THEM BOTH THAT THE CLAIM HAS NOT BEEN SEEN BUT IS HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGED, YOU WILL DEFEND IN FULL AND THAT YOUR ADDRESS HAS CHANGED FROM:

OLD (erase this address immediately)

to

NEW (note this is the address for service).

You can also ask BOTH for a copy of the POC because you are currently defending a claim you haven't seen and cannot obtain from the old address as it appears to have missed mail forwarding.

Either BW or the CNBC can send you the POC.