Openreach pole on my land question

DJOrinoco

Hi All,
first post so please be gentle.
I have Pole, a stay and 2 foot way boxes on my land. I live in a private road and have been here for over 25 years. During this time there has never been any wayleave agreement in place. Now I have decided I wish to open up the front of my property to allow off street parking and where the pole is situated will stop me from using the space efficiently. I have been in touch with Openreachon several occasions over the last few years and the wayleaves department invites me site sign a ne agreement. I have said that I will but that I want the pole moving approx 1.5m to the boundary of my property to give me maximum off road parking. They put me in touch with the network rearrangements team who tell me that they want £1000 to come and survey the job. I explain that they have no wayleave so the infrastructure is there illegally and they should come and survey the pole so we can agree a way forward. Then it all goes quiet.
so now Openreach are rolling out fibre in my road and I have refused them access to the pole for any new work on the grounds that there is no wayleave in place. I have also raised this with Ofcom who said I should take legal advice.
Questions For those of you who may have already been down this road:
1. If there has been no wayleave in place for over 25 years do I have the right to demand they remove the pole ?
2. If Opened each refuse to engage with me then what options do I have (apart from refusing them access to the infrastructure on my land ?
I have no wish to stop the roll out of fibre in my road but this is the only chance I have to get Openreach’s attention.
your thoughts and experiences would be most welcome.
cheers
Dave

iniltous

Does the pole on your land also serve your address  ? ,

although always preferable to obtain a wayleave , historically a wayleave when the infrastructure is placed on private land ( with the landowners  permission) , that the landowner directly benefits from , wasn't always formalised with a wayleave agreement , often the ‘payment’ for the wayleave if other properties benefited was negligible, and no payment due if the landowner solely benefited meant that the paperwork was neglected, the landowner basically happy with a ‘handshake’ .

It can become somewhat ‘tricky’ for the landowner if they later demand removal of the infrastructure or after a change in ownership of the land , the new owner requests removal ,  as Openreach can in effect argue that the individual by demanding removal, has negated their rights to have services at the same time , and although the infrastructure could be ultimately be removed ( or alternatively a compulsory wayleave sought ) the landowner could waive their right to any service under the USO ( universal service obligation) , in other words the infrastructure is removed,  but so is the service it delivered to the property…if other properties are also served this is not likely as they still have a USO , in those cases alternative solutions to maintain service to the USO property but not necessarily the property wanting their services removed.

As you have been advised, it’s something you probably need to take legal advice on , generally network rearranging for something like vehicle access is chargable ,it’s the applicant changing the status quo, the fact it’s on your land may result in you not getting it moved to your preferred location , but getting it completely removed , with no alternative provided for you to retain your own service.

DJOrinoco

I am not a BT customer. My services are provided by Virginmedia and do not use the pole.
I do not think I’m being unreasonable here. I’m happy for the pole to stay on my land. I’m also happy to sign a wayleave. I just want it moved a bit to the side (actually nearer to the footway boxes)
Openreach appear unwilling to engage in any meaningful dialogue to resolve this.
Thanks for your thoughts iniltous 👍

onomatopoeia99

Don't forget that Openreach (like most network operators) have code powers.  I'm sure your legal adviser will tell you this when you appoint one.

matelodave

I'm sure we all have an opinion, some will be right, some will be wrong but most will be guesses and I suggest that relying on a collection random guesses from well meaning forumites wont help you all that much.

As suggested you really need to consult a solicitor which could start ramping up the costs. You may feel that moving it a couple of feet or so is trivial, but it probably isn't, especially if its serving several other subscribers and requires a heap of civil works and re-cabling to do it

iniltous

Did you and your neighbours obtain a wayleave from Virgin  ? , often when it comes to private roads , Virgin , or the whoever was the cable franchise holder at the time of construction avoid these type of areas …..also how is the area laid out , does it have footpaths , if it does it’s odd that the pole was sited where it is ,  if there are no footpaths , obviously a pole cannot be in sited the road , but that wouldh beg the question , where did Virgin locate their toby boxes as they normally are provided in the footpath adjacent to the property they were designed to serve ,
 Is this a rural setting or an urban one , if urban , is the only noticeable difference between it and more other streets ,  that the road hasn’t been adopted by the local authority ?