Unsure of rights

randsypants

Morning.

I'm after some advice on a couple of issues please. Sorry for the long description, but I think I need to put some background on this.

Issue 1 

October 2023 I bought I new bike in a new style/design in a shop.  Because of the lovely UK weather I didn't ride it outside, but i have done alot of indoor riding on it.

Back in March, as the early season races were approaching, I got outside on it in some pretty crap weather. Got back and obviously bike needed a clean. Cleaned it the same as every other bike I have owned ( no pressure washer was used for info). A garden hose reel( not on jet) and a sponge etc.

The next day, when I went to ride the bike again.  I could hear sloshing inside the frame.  Did some digging around for a drain port underneath, but there was nothing.  Eventually, found somewhere to try and get the water out, but it's not a dedicated drain port and is actually the housing for the electronic gears battery at the back of the wheel arch.  I tipped it upside down, but the water just runs elsewhere in the frame and actually came out of a few other areas like where cables are routed or where the steerer tube is.  It also took alot of jigging around and me taking parts off the bike to Eventually get what I hope is all the water out of the frame.

I'm still unsure where the water Is getting in the frame, but it could be that even rain water could cause the bike to fill up whilst in use in heavy rain or when left outside over night ( some races require this).  Its just not practical for me to be taking my bike apart or tipping it upside down every time. Especially when at a race.

I've been in touch with the shop since Early March who have been apologetic and quite helpful., who in turn have been in touch with the manufacturer and the manufacturers have just given guidance to drain the water from 'my chosen location/ hole, and that every bike frame from any manufacturer has the potential to fill with water. I've owned several bikes and none of my others have.

Where do I stand with this and the potential for a refund? The bike cost me several thousand pounds.

Issue 2

On top of the above, yesterday I noticed that one of the modifications I asked for on the bike at time of purchase hasn't been completed. I didn't notice at the time of collection because when I arrived the bike was already on the mount for my bike fitting and I just expected it to have been done, because other more visible mods and been completed.   I didn't pay extra for the swap out of the original component as the shop was happy they could sell the original part, but now it's going to cost me to get the part I want. Obviously, the part I have is showing signs of wear and tear. 

Where do I stand with requesting the part I actually ordered?

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks 

pramsay13

For the first issue I think you will struggle unless you have anything contractual about bike being a sealed unit or not letting water in. 
Other than that it will come down to what is generally expected. I don't know a lot about bikes but I expect if you're cleaning thoroughly or there's heavy rain you would expect water to get into a hollow frame with lots of openings, and the presence of a drain hole would back that up. 

For the second issue again if there's nothing contractual you would be relying on a goodwill gesture from the original seller as you didn't pay for it you haven't lost out. 

randsypants

Thanks for the reply.

There isnt a dedicated drain hole on the bike.  Interestingly there is on the older model.

I did think i might struggle on the second issue, but wasnt sure  if i would be covered because it isnt the spec i paid for.

Alderbank

pramsay13 said:

For the second issue again if there's nothing contractual you would be relying on a goodwill gesture from the original seller and as you didn't pay for it you haven't lost out.. 

I agree that if there's nothing contractual you would be relying on a goodwill gesture, but these modifications are contractual.
They were discussed before the contract was sealed and the trader agreed to them, so they became contract terms. That is exactly how contracts are meant to work - both parties agree the terms beforehand and then have certainty that both parties are bound by them.
The difficulty, of course, if these terms were agreed verbally, is proving them.

...as you didn't pay [extra] for it you haven't lost out....  I don't follow your logic. 
If I buy order a red car and you supply a blue car, you can't just say 'Red and blue cost the same, as you didn't pay for it you haven't lost out.'

CRA says that if the goods are not as described they are 'faulty' and must be replaced or refunded. No mention of price.

Okell

randsypants said:

... There isnt a dedicated drain hole on the bike.  Interestingly there is on the older model...

So this is an "off the peg" bike and not a custom built one or a special frame?

What has the bike shop said about* the water ingress and lack of a drain hole?

When did you actually buy it?  Whether it was within the last 6 months might be important.  Unfortunately just telling us it was bought in October without saying when in October doesn't really help

Regarding the modification that was agreed but not provided, yes they should have done that, but the shop is going to wonder how you only noticed it yesterday.

(And just to satisfy my bike noseyness, in what way is it a "new style/design?)



*Although it's not the manufacturer's responsibility, have you tried asking the manufacturer about this?  In the event water gets into the frame, how are you meant to drain it?  If they say water shouldn't get into the frame in the first place, then you have evidence that it's faulty

sheramber

Okell said:

randsypants said:

... There isnt a dedicated drain hole on the bike.  Interestingly there is on the older model...

*Although it's not the manufacturer's responsibility, have you tried asking the manufacturer about this?  In the event water gets into the frame, how are you meant to drain it?  If they say water shouldn't get into the frame in the first place, then you have evidence that it's faulty

from the forst post

the manufacturers have just given guidance to drain the water from 'my chosen location/ hole, and that every bike frame from any manufacturer has the potential to fill with water. 

randsypants

Alderbank said:

pramsay13 said:

For the second issue again if there's nothing contractual you would be relying on a goodwill gesture from the original seller and as you didn't pay for it you haven't lost out.. 

I agree that if there's nothing contractual you would be relying on a goodwill gesture, but these modifications are contractual.
They were discussed before the contract was sealed and the trader agreed to them, so they became contract terms. That is exactly how contracts are meant to work - both parties agree the terms beforehand and then have certainty that both parties are bound by them.
The difficulty, of course, if these terms were agreed verbally, is proving them.

...as you didn't pay [extra] for it you haven't lost out....  I don't follow your logic. 
If I buy order a red car and you supply a blue car, you can't just say 'Red and blue cost the same, as you didn't pay for it you haven't lost out.'

CRA says that if the goods are not as described they are 'faulty' and must be replaced or refunded. No mention of price.

I do have the agreement of the swap of items in an email, so that may help my cause.  What we're talking about specifically is the length of the cranks.  I aksed for tjem to be swapped for shorter ones.

randsypants

Okell said:

randsypants said:

... There isnt a dedicated drain hole on the bike.  Interestingly there is on the older model...

So this is an "off the peg" bike and not a custom built one or a special frame?

What has the bike shop said about* the water ingress and lack of a drain hole?

When did you actually buy it?  Whether it was within the last 6 months might be important.  Unfortunately just telling us it was bought in October without saying when in October doesn't really help

Regarding the modification that was agreed but not provided, yes they should have done that, but the shop is going to wonder how you only noticed it yesterday.

(And just to satisfy my bike noseyness, in what way is it a "new style/design?)



*Although it's not the manufacturer's responsibility, have you tried asking the manufacturer about this?  In the event water gets into the frame, how are you meant to drain it?  If they say water shouldn't get into the frame in the first place, then you have evidence that it's faulty

Its an off the peg bike, but the shop agreed to swap certain parts for others on the basis that they would still be able to sell the original parts and would not be out of pocket.

The bike shop have been in touch with the bike manufcaturer HQ who gave me the response above about draining it .  But there is no specific drain hole on the bike ( only holes, where components fit etc).

Ill check the date of collection of the bike as i had to wait a few weeks for it to arrive in the UK and be built. It may have been in November.  When does the 6 months start? On reciept of goods or on payment?  Regardless of that, surely if a bike becomes a mobile bath tub in wet weather then its not fit for purpose.?

What i meant by new design is like when a car manufacturer remodels the same model to a new shape etc.  In this case, the bike.on the whole looks the same, but they must have a new mould shape to account for the removal of.the old drainage hole.

Okell

randsypants said:

Okell said:

randsypants said:

... There isnt a dedicated drain hole on the bike.  Interestingly there is on the older model...

So this is an "off the peg" bike and not a custom built one or a special frame?

What has the bike shop said about* the water ingress and lack of a drain hole?

When did you actually buy it?  Whether it was within the last 6 months might be important.  

... Ill check the date of collection of the bike as i had to wait a few weeks for it to arrive in the UK and be built. It may have been in November.  When does the 6 months start? On reciept of goods or on payment?  Regardless of that, surely if a bike becomes a mobile bath tub in wet weather then its not fit for purpose.?...

The 6 months starts from when you took delivery of it.

The importance of 6 months is that if the bike develops any "fault" within that period, then that "fault" is legally presumed to have been present at purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.  After 6 months the legal onus is on you to prove it was present at purchase*.

In this case I don't think it matters too much(?) as it sounds as if the actual design of the bike itself is faulty and not fit for purpose from square one. However if you're still within 6 months there's no harm getting a complaint in now.*

What have the bike shop said about this?  Do they think it's normal?  What solution have they suggested?

Have the bike shop built it correctly?

Who is the manufacturer?


*Whether or not within 6 months you'd be entitled to a repair or a replacement.  If that repair or repalcement was also faulty, you'd be entitled to a refund